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The future of Dynasty

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So Dynasty has been with us for 2 seasons now and according to my observations it did not really improve much.

There were 2 reasons why dynasty was added in the first place:

1st) So mages won't consider DC set as top and reach "endgame" rather quick - not much was improved in that regard since now archers consider draconic better than dynasty.

2nd) Gap was assumed to be smaller between A and Dynasty than B and S - which is also wrong.

Therefore I consider that for next season, and since we're already into custom items stuff, to remove dynasty (will be kept just for dressme) and instead make MA set give cast speed bonus instead of the m.atk. bonus.

This way I can keep A-grade as starting gear, get rid of dynasty for smaller gear gap between newcomers and veterans, make mages go for S-grade too (and this way we also avoid everyone going only archers at end game), make S-grade have the prices of dynasty so the amount of things players have to do ingame doesn't actually change.

In addition, A-grade bows attack speed will be changed from Very Slow to Slow, this way archers will be able to compete at early days too without having to wait all the way for endgame gear.

In order to make sure all players are aware of the changes the Merchant NPC dialog will display these changes ingame too.

 

In addition, progressive gameplay (both price reduction and adena increase overtime) doesn't seem to work out quite right, first of all due to it affecting the market in a too drastic way and secondly is because it requires all systems to be synced otherwise these that aren't becomes useless (for example box of luck giving 550 adena, or daily shops offering EWS for 18 medals for example no matter if shop price has already been reduced from 6k to 3k and there are plenty more examples).

Therefore these systems will be removed, instead we'll give more focus on gear dependent system (better adena boost for newbies only - with an overtime increment for them only) and maybe add shadow item tickets after a while of server online which newbies will be able to use to buy enchanted non-tradable shadow items.

 

Thoughts and feedback are welcome 🙂

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If u make Shyeed slow weapons, u will just have archers from day 1 till the end imo.

Instead of dynasty, what about introducing masterworks as end game farming?

+1 for any incentive to help new comers, also, as I mentioned on discord, I think having a +6 enchant cap on both armor/weapons would balance the nonsense damage and also reduce the gap between new comers and people who are playing from day 1.

Just wanted to drop this here: after u cap the quest manager (level 70 on everything) there is almost no point in playing that character anymore, after some ranks, the quest manager is basically the main source of enchants and other useful drop, can you increase the cap or make that feature still working somehow even when a char is capped?

thanks for listening

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good idea. the destruction of the adena increase and price reduction will get rid of the star wars weapons. only reason there were so many was because enchant scrolls were so cheap. I like the major arcana boost thing, but if you change shyeeds to slow, that would kill nukers early game i think.

Edited by Scaretactic

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14 minutes ago, Scaretactic said:

that would kill nukers early game i think.

HOW???? Archers need double ring to do some dmg..! Especially at early stage archer is crap.

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You should also consider option [like BOG put on discord] with reducing max enchant to let say +13 or reduce greatly success rate of enchant/drop ews or so...nobody like star wars servers...imho top weap for example 7/8/9 should be very rare. 
Rest changes you proposed +1.

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after i play that server i can say some things,lets start 

1)of course remove dynasty(dynasty gives more p def so its ok against archer but what about other chars ? dagger-summoner-gladi-gk and all fighter classes cause do less dmg with that higher p def) so its absolutely best choice to remove 

2)first one who need to nerf is archer (more and more and more ) its absolutely destroying server just  press f1 (auto cp hp pots WHAT THE HELL JUST F1 )

3)Cancel from sps (not from sorc just from sps) i understand that spell has cast time and of course it should land 100% 1-4 5 buffs , butttt when someone has like arcane protection and ultimate evasion and jewels ++ maybe consider to do like  i) if you dont have ressist buffs remove 3-5 buffs ii) if you have ressist remove 0-2 buffs cause no reason then to have arcane protection on NPC buffer or even ultimate evasion. that should work for sps only for SORC its ok cause has only 1 spell and you need to balance that so its ok (i mean if someone want to play sorc he has something)

4)lets talk about daggers, you did exellent job on dagger (human dagger fails a lot on skills and it is VERY GOOD so other 2 daggers success more so you see all dagger in game not only human, perfect work nice ) ,damge from dagger is good all fine but BLUFF chance as i wrote in bug report its at least crap and bliding blow also , bluff has 100% chance return back and lose target , here is like 1/10 to turn back and 1/20 to stun for 2 sec Xd not even worth to use it  plus you never play on 1v1 so  if anyone want to play dagger from beghging he just cant cause bluff no chance so cant just go inside and try to kill one guy because of bluff chance ,no bluff no dmg xD****bliding blow hile attempting a powerful attack on the enemy's vital areas, it causes the enemy to show his/her back

here 0% to turn back(it should be 100%)

5)GK  is kind OP, and actually inside oly but i think dynasty gave him toooooo much dmg for some reason so i can say remove dynasty->gk will nerf a bit 

6)i dont know what happend but after 1-2 week all big epics (antharas -valakas - baium ) drop like 70-100k each thats wrong xD, need fix, you should take ONE epic after 5-6 epic bosses so you havve to play a bit to be full gear

7)olympiad skills dont reuse after a match but i think you did that for reason of balance so not have all skills every match for more balance , i think its ok 

8)i should write that first but already know : GEODATA Xd no need to say anything 

9)very good job , keep doing your good job !

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11 hours ago, Stubback said:

HOW???? Archers need double ring to do some dmg..! Especially at early stage archer is crap.

we managed to hit +10 shyeed bow on first day and it was hitting 3.5k on casters, same damage u have now on end game with +16 bow and double rings

Edited by lovehate

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First of all, I'd like to thank you for this beautiful server.  In my opinion: 

1)  Remove dynasty, the idea behind it was good, but as you mentioned.

2) I was playing archer from beggining, and it's managable, but if you retweak shyeeds from very slow, to slow - it might be a problem, as shy+f+4-5 is = drac bow+f (except SA), but p.atk is very, very close. I'd suggest to lower bow's patk by 10%-15% and make it slow. The problem is not damage, it's how fast you do the damage especially in massive pvps to retreat and so on. Most of the times playing PR I could hit hard, but target would fall down quicker than my shot 😄

Also Shy+15 was well kinda not so good, damage did not scale so well. Maybe for me.

3) Also, as for reworks in item scaling and so on. I know that Lineage is a grind game, but as gaming progressed it began to develop rewards systems more and more. So, my concern would be. If we start with A grade and the next step is S grade (which is extremely hard to acquire), it will probably generate effect of stillness (I'm farming for three-four days and nothing has changed, I'm kinda equal to every other player) which is good for balance and bit bad for keeping players playing. 

So maybe a stupid idea, but an idea 😉 What if we see B grade start, but S grade crafting requires A grade items? You already implented such "upgrade" system this season. It may balance proffesions as now we see a bunch of mages at the start, and bunch of archers in the end. But such system may add some planning. As for example, if I want to roll an archer I have to buy A grade anyways as it is necessary for acquiring S grade (instead of just skipping), therefore if I have to buy A grade bow I'd rather play with it instead of farming with mage and with better gear just swapping to archerino instant. 

Also, we get a feeling that we are improving. 

4) I liked the balance this season, as it was pretty nice in most cases. Well, we sav instant archer swap when boss jews popped. And yeah, it's an easy farm when you crit 4k+. We should remember that acquiring boss jews was way harder than acquiring S grade in Lineage 2. I really liked this mantra system, but we see that it generated boss jews pretty quickly. Well, archers do require double ring (as for glads/tyr/mages it doesn't give so much as for archers) and we can see a sudden spike in 4k dmg pew pew. Probably system should force to choose between aq and baium, and then you kinda have to start over to grind for it again. So only one ring gives more time. 

Plus, non tradeable mantras is mvp.

Once again, thank you for great experience, we appreciate your work 🙂

 

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i cant see the problem about dynasty tbh,i really liked it and i believe servers life increased by it,now what "killed" the server sooner was the dramatic decrease on the shop prices,i mean was dropping really really fast and like 2-3 times per day,in 3 days from full cost the shop items drop to were it is now..about the class balances archer is in good place,is nerfed he misses alot and the damage is decent (if you consider all have full jewels duel might and +++ bow) 3-3.5k is not even close to consider brutal,archer is nerfed to a playable for everyone point,mage is good also,i dont know about gladis but i dont see emerald talk about daggers,for them is the worst thing to remove dynastys because the dyna set gives him almost 5 evasion,more atk.spd even from drac set,more p.def and dark resist,leaving the dyna aside i have to say its too hard to play dagger on the server not just because at least half of the maps is open space and the spawns resurrecting full pack of players and not 1by1 lets say but because the bluff just doesnt work (i mean it have some low chances to work,like probably 1/25 personally i dont even use it,sometimes i click it on my 3rd bar) but the blinding blow have 0% chance to turn enemys back which is really bad,for sure this 2 skills is something to get your eyes on and now a suggestion i made like one or two times again in the past is give the elfs and d.elfs Fake Death lvl 2 (not icluding humans because of the mirage) fake death lvl 2 would mean removes everyones target state (from you),yes you all know were i got this ideas from but let me tell you this changes for sure going to make the dagger playable and fun from the start and not only when is 10 ppl on the map.
Again i liked every change you did on this season except of course the drop on shop prices and maybe the mantra that make rb jewels free for all almost and it just not feel satisfing to be full gear so soon and not have to grind for your antharas or zaken lets say,also many classes dying way sooner as ppl get full rb set on their hands due to the resistance they give,ppl not even crafting jewels anymore because they go for full rb and just dont care,that was my recap of the server,i dont have any problems about your suggests and changes about the upcoming season im sure its going to be a bomb once again but i am really sceptical about the dagger class,thats all.

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2 hours ago, Deity said:

 3-3.5k is not even close to consider brutal

An average mage has a global pool of 8-9k hp, and I'm exaggerating, it's actually less.

not brutal, yap.

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11 hours ago, hitter said:

nd yeah, it's an easy farm when you crit 4k+. We should remember that acquiring boss jews was way harder than acquiring S grade in Lineage 2. I really liked this mantra system, but we see that it generated boss jews pretty quickly.

Yea i kinda agree with this, in L2 epics are basically end game, was funny to see the red faction with 3 epics while still being in a/low s grade, thats when the UFO dmg started to happen, so basically the rb jewels should start appearing a bit later in game.

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17 hours ago, lovehate said:

An average mage has a global pool of 8-9k hp, and I'm exaggerating, it's actually less.

not brutal, yap.

you only quoted the damage part,as i said they do 3-3.5k with full rbj +16 bow and duel might,this would be 9k damage in retail so yes its no brutal is nerfed to the ground because they do less then half damage and miss 4/5 on light armor users so..at the end of the day you play an interlude client man,you nerfed it once twice you cant just remove it from the game,like it or not 50% of the server logging in to play their archer and if emerald didnt do all those nerfs they will only archers on the server but they are not,i see all classes on maps and that means something.
 

 

13 hours ago, PissingSS said:

Yea i kinda agree with this, in L2 epics are basically end game, was funny to see the red faction with 3 epics while still being in a/low s grade, thats when the UFO dmg started to happen, so basically the rb jewels should start appearing a bit later in game.

that`s a great idea tbh but its kinda the same,no?they will appear late but when they do all will go 5set?or you mean that boss fights will start happening later on the server and not from day one?now that im thinking it it could be like.. AQ / sailren / core / orfen everyday,zaken / baium / antharas every 2 days and valakas / tezza every 3 days..this will delay the process and make things more spicy..ppl will actually care to win a valakas fight and feel like its something to compete when it happens instead of just staying afk as red and take the spoils after the win,and of course instead of happening every single day and having 1.5kk fire mantra on your inventory..

Edited by Deity

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i suggested in the past to make epics spawn faster and make them drop the jewels 100% and to not be buyable with adena(wasnt mantra option) but ppl said they wont wait 1 month to get full epics. about shyeed bow's attack speed,emeraldu suggested to change it from very slow to slow cause in the 1st days were many QQs cause archers couldn't kill nothing cause of the attack speed,many were like "wtf a mage hitting me 3-4 times while i hit only once...bb i emo quit gl with the mage servidor"

about mantras dropping more and more was intended to help newcomers, if a nub had full epics he could sell it on market cheap to help those who just joined

Edited by BOG

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1 hour ago, BOG said:

about mantras dropping more and more was intended to help newcomers, if a nub had full epics he could sell it on market cheap to help those who just joined

no.. in order for a nub to take epics he needs a couple of things, 1 be extremely lucky (if its a drop) which is hard cuz a nub will struggle to make the points durring the faction vs faction to even content for the drop, 2 to be on the red side which is again a struggle cuz everyone will rush on the red side and the newbs will have to play on green (been like this since forever, its a problem imo), 3 if a newb will get an epic the ppl that can afford to buy it will most likelly already have epics, 4 lets be honest woot exactly are the chances of all these things happening? 2-3 ppl per season will "maybe" have this luck. Dont get me wrong i love the mantra system, but it makes the strong stronger and weak ... you know. Give the server a chance to "settle" for a week than you can open up the epics.... I honestly think that epics should come later ig... but who knows...

Edited by PissingSS

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and about the "fairness" of the epics... in the end adding them in shop for adena will prolly remain the best option(the price should be higher, for example if we take the prices from the last version into consideration, before they started to drop, 300k for QA, 400k for baium, 500k for valakas would've stopped the drama, if the mantra system didnt exist i mean) , cuz we know woot happens, red side will win everything again, the server will last for 2 weeks and we will be having this discussion in a month.

Edited by PissingSS

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So my biggest issue with OvC is the lack of progression, everything is so fast that the meaning of farming for level/skills/gear means absolutely nothing or it's very minor.

The rank system and daily system is really good and works but it needs something else to sustain them so I will propose something that has been a constant feature in nowdays servers and it's called "stages"
But how stages can be applied to ovc which is a faction server? simple... by using the rank system, so let's say:

Stage sytem

Stage 1

-B grade unlocked
-Tatto locked
-AQ/Zaken/Orfen/Core unlocked
-B grade enchants available

When X amount of players reach X level of rank, the server will move to stage 2

Stage 2

-A grade unlocked
-Tatto unlocked
-AQ/Zaken/Orfen/Core/Baium/Antharas unlocked
-A grade enchants available

When X amount of players reach X level of rank, the server will move to stage 3 (final)

Stage 3

-S grade unlocked
-Tatto unlocked
-All epics unlocked
-S grade enchants available

Now to support this new "stage" system we would need to do a few changes, first and most important one:

Enchants and Augments are (and should be) considered end game items and not something you get casually from shop, these items should be only obtainable by completing daily missions/quests/events (pigs,cards,medals etc) and by completing your rank level.

Obviously this is a harsh change and probably a lot of people will not like the fact that they can't get end game augs and their +10 S weps in the first 3 days so to avoid mass quitting from those players these items should be "buffed".

Enchants will be limited to +10 for weapons and +6 for armors.

Stage 1
-Enchants base enchant 66%
Stage 2
-Enchants base enchant 72%
Stage 3
-Enchants base enchant 80%

Life stones augments 
We have 2 options here:

-Increase the % really high
-Remove all unnecessary augs (mostly the chance ones)

Now daily missions will be actually be something that players will look forward to do since the rewards will be great and not only a low amount of adena.
Daily quest and event shops should be updated with new prices for enchants/ls to compensate the lack of them from shop (they would still be much harder to get rather than just being in shop)

With those changes, enchanting and augs will be actually fun to do/farm and people will stop quitting from bad luck.

After every stage, newbies will get some gear:

- When server advances to stage 2, new players will get B grade sets +6 and B weapons +6, these items will last for 24 hours(in game time) to give newbies a boost.
- When server advances to stage 3, new players will get A grade sets +6 and A weapons +6, these items will last for 24(in game time) hours to give newbies a boost.

Upgrade system

This is another idea I have based on the rank system so basically this system will let you upgrade your items from B to A and S with the incentive that they will cost less than buying from shop/players.
The upgrade will depend on which rank achievement you choose at the beginning, each player would be able to pick 3 rank achievements when they have advanced to rank 25(for example)
Let's say you will play a dps class like archer/mage/gladi so then you could choose

Kills/Assists/Top

So from there you will be able to link these 3 achievements to the upgrade system:

-When you have X amount of kills you will be able to upgrade your weapon, for example when you reach 1000 kills + Adena you will be able to upgrade your peril +5 to carnage +5.
-When you have X amount of assists you will be able to upgrade your armor, for example when you reach 500 assists + Adena you will be able to upgrade your Doom +4 to MJ +4.
-When you have X amount of tops  you will be able to upgrade your jewelry, for example when you reach 10 tops + Adena you will be able to upgrade your Black Ore ring +6 to Majestic earring +6.

Obviously these are just examples but you get the point, once you advance to rank X you choose 3 rank achievements that you will link to weapon/armor/jewelry and start upgrading.

let me know what you think, I think it will be fun if the stages system could be integrated and see how it works in ovc.

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7 hours ago, Deity said:

i see all classes on maps and that means something.

I actually see only archers in maps, who plays something else is just a masochist

Anyway that's why i always leave IL after 1 week, cba standing only archers around

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52 minutes ago, brplayer said:

So my biggest issue with OvC is the lack of progression, everything is so fast that the meaning of farming for level/skills/gear means absolutely nothing or it's very minor.

The rank system and daily system is really good and works but it needs something else to sustain them so I will propose something that has been a constant feature in nowdays servers and it's called "stages"
But how stages can be applied to ovc which is a faction server? simple... by using the rank system, so let's say:

Stage sytem

Stage 1

-B grade unlocked
-Tatto locked
-AQ/Zaken/Orfen/Core unlocked
-B grade enchants available

When X amount of players reach X level of rank, the server will move to stage 2

Stage 2

-A grade unlocked
-Tatto unlocked
-AQ/Zaken/Orfen/Core/Baium/Antharas unlocked
-A grade enchants available

When X amount of players reach X level of rank, the server will move to stage 3 (final)

Stage 3

-S grade unlocked
-Tatto unlocked
-All epics unlocked
-S grade enchants available

Now to support this new "stage" system we would need to do a few changes, first and most important one:

Enchants and Augments are (and should be) considered end game items and not something you get casually from shop, these items should be only obtainable by completing daily missions/quests/events (pigs,cards,medals etc) and by completing your rank level.

Obviously this is a harsh change and probably a lot of people will not like the fact that they can't get end game augs and their +10 S weps in the first 3 days so to avoid mass quitting from those players these items should be "buffed".

Enchants will be limited to +10 for weapons and +6 for armors.

Stage 1
-Enchants base enchant 66%
Stage 2
-Enchants base enchant 72%
Stage 3
-Enchants base enchant 80%

Life stones augments 
We have 2 options here:

-Increase the % really high
-Remove all unnecessary augs (mostly the chance ones)

Now daily missions will be actually be something that players will look forward to do since the rewards will be great and not only a low amount of adena.
Daily quest and event shops should be updated with new prices for enchants/ls to compensate the lack of them from shop (they would still be much harder to get rather than just being in shop)

With those changes, enchanting and augs will be actually fun to do/farm and people will stop quitting from bad luck.

After every stage, newbies will get some gear:

- When server advances to stage 2, new players will get B grade sets +6 and B weapons +6, these items will last for 24 hours(in game time) to give newbies a boost.
- When server advances to stage 3, new players will get A grade sets +6 and A weapons +6, these items will last for 24(in game time) hours to give newbies a boost.

Upgrade system

This is another idea I have based on the rank system so basically this system will let you upgrade your items from B to A and S with the incentive that they will cost less than buying from shop/players.
The upgrade will depend on which rank achievement you choose at the beginning, each player would be able to pick 3 rank achievements when they have advanced to rank 25(for example)
Let's say you will play a dps class like archer/mage/gladi so then you could choose

Kills/Assists/Top

So from there you will be able to link these 3 achievements to the upgrade system:

-When you have X amount of kills you will be able to upgrade your weapon, for example when you reach 1000 kills + Adena you will be able to upgrade your peril +5 to carnage +5.
-When you have X amount of assists you will be able to upgrade your armor, for example when you reach 500 assists + Adena you will be able to upgrade your Doom +4 to MJ +4.
-When you have X amount of tops  you will be able to upgrade your jewelry, for example when you reach 10 tops + Adena you will be able to upgrade your Black Ore ring +6 to Majestic earring +6.

Obviously these are just examples but you get the point, once you advance to rank X you choose 3 rank achievements that you will link to weapon/armor/jewelry and start upgrading.

let me know what you think, I think it will be fun if the stages system could be integrated and see how it works in ovc.

to much custom... there are already new players on this system who have no clue woot to do...

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and another thing, giving +6 sets to new players aint gonna help, it will actually do more harm than good cuz they will get less gold for killing a higher rank and a higher rank will get more gold for killing him and thats the last thing the server needs... focusing on the new players, also heh... you think a plus +6 dc set will stop you from getting 4k from an archer?... you will still be 2 hits ... Giving them OE sets will basically call out the dinner bell for the high ranks, yumm yumm

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without the +6 they wont kill nobody and insta-emo quit, a good solution is to increase even more the gear penalty, about epics, they were added for mantras to avoid having epics in first hours, ppl could trade adena to eachother and make a nub full epics and that nub could farm for every1 after so making epics buyable with adenu again wont happen 😄

Edited by BOG

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the dmg difference is basically non existent if we are talking about a guy with a grade +6 hitting a guy in s grade. Lets take it step by step, woot happened last version

First day- all good and fun, all the clans have joined the red faction (was an accident, obviously, nothing planned kek) but there are to many ppl online so they cant really make a difference yet.

Second day- S grade bows start to appear, events slowly start to go in the favor of the red faction, we already see ppl crying about archer and or range maps.

Third day- A lot of S grade on the red side, clans have their parties all geared up, green faction loosing like 20 RB's in a row, ppl from green start moving to the red side, newbs are forced to go to green making the matter worse, atm nobody cant do anything to change the situation.

Fourth day- Dynasty bows combined with AQ and Baium cuz they got all the rb's, green side getting demolished everywhere, find myself at the rb with 80% of my faction being rank 1 vs dynasty cp's on the red faction, meanwhile i still see new players trying to join and getting oblitared at events cuz the red side basically reached "end game" in 4 days. The end.

Something needs to change during the first 3 points to stop them snowballing and killing the server.

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Emerald has to put together the balance between factions. he has to talk to the clan leaders, start paying some kind of bonuses, give clan skills to active clans who it was discussed with ( for example it could be something like FA, this should maintain a greater balance between clans who make a significant impact between factions)

the problem with archers is not that they do 3-4k damage to mages, the problem is that playing a lot all week, i no longer feel the pleasure of playing further. and all because the new people who play for the archer has two rings and a bow+10, its just to easy to achieve after week. i dont mind if the person who tries and puts in a lot of work to make his person stronger than others.

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I mean instead of making changes to help newbies get to "late game"... which is smt really hard to do without messing it up, how about we move the "late game" later? Giving them items, buffs, better drops etc wont help much cuz they will still not be able to catch up to someone who is already full and just buying enchants for +16 wep. This way when the server will be 5 days old and some1 will join ( we know every1 will join if the server is new and they say "pass" if its old) we can say "yeah bruh, its only 5 days no top gear yet" instead of yeah 4 days, its over, gg"

Edited by PissingSS

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