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lovehate

[IL/H5] Server longevity

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What can we do exactly to make the server more desirable to both new comers and people that start from day 1?

this is a GvE faction server where everyone is supposed to have fun both if u are a casual solo player or not.

just throwing out some ideas, u can feel free to contribute, disapprove or talk about it:

Adena - Make it self only, not tradeable. Like that u prevent CPs or group of friends farming everyone for 1 goal which they can abuse my dominating others because of overgear.
Clan Skills - Just give every clan full clan skills or even to people without clan, like that only people that gather up and start giving adena donations everyday to the clan will manage to have those passive faster and be stronger.
Raid bosses - Remove items full drop, implement shard system. Example: by attending X zakens u get X shards which will give u the opportunity to take the epic jewel, temporary or not, u choose.


 

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i remember maybe 3-4 years ago, the OVC H5 season would last so much longer - It was much harder to craft items; starting I believe was B grade and from S grade onwards you had to craft them with mats etc. This made progression much slower; therefore people would be enticed to play longer maybe? Dunno.. just a thought

The biggest downside to this of course is the idea that there would be too big a difference between newcomers and players which started from day 1, as the spectrum would be much bigger from B - S84; and thus why not make each grade "free" each week the server is open? = 1st week no chance, 2nd week A grade free, 3rd week S grade free or becomes much cheaper to craft etc - this not only motivates those who started from day 1 to progress as quickly as possible as their items will diminish value every day, but also a nice level-playing field for late newcomers?

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I like lovehate's idea of adena being not tradeable, that might solve the problem of organised clans pooling their resources and gaining huge advantage early. 

This will sound radical, but I'd completely eliminate economic activity. People that know how to play also knows how to manipulate prices and exploit economy, which, just as pooling of resources, helps them gain big advantage and create a huge gear gap between them and anyone else pretty quick. Those S84-ers that we see running around in a first week are usually not only those that played more, but also those who pooled their resources and took advantage of economy.  Make everything - gear, resources, enchants, LS etc. untradable, you'd still be able to buy and sell them from shop.

It's a PVP server and a very exciting one, encourage people to be better by participating in events and not by searching for other means. The more you'd PVP, the better you'd become, simple as that. 

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11 hours ago, lovehate said:

Adena - Make it self only, not tradeable. Like that u prevent CPs or group of friends farming everyone for 1 goal which they can abuse my dominating others because of overgear.

Terrible side effect of killing the economy, so that's a big no.

11 hours ago, lovehate said:

Clan Skills - Just give every clan full clan skills or even to people without clan, like that only people that gather up and start giving adena donations everyday to the clan will manage to have those passive faster and be stronger.

Also has a side effect of giving the ability to create alt clans a lot easier, so that's a no aswell, and giving clan skills to everyone is just the same as removing clan skills alltogether, don't like it.

11 hours ago, lovehate said:

Raid bosses - Remove items full drop, implement shard system. Example: by attending X zakens u get X shards which will give u the opportunity to take the epic jewel, temporary or not, u choose.

This was considered before and can be considered again, basically I do like the excitement the current randomness brings to whoever manages to pick the jewel, but we could see if giving coins to all these who took part in the raid could end up better - would require a deeper thought on how to approach it exactly.

5 hours ago, Rhaegar said:

i remember maybe 3-4 years ago, the OVC H5 season would last so much longer - It was much harder to craft items; starting I believe was B grade and from S grade onwards you had to craft them with mats etc. This made progression much slower; therefore people would be enticed to play longer maybe? Dunno.. just a thought

Most people who quit don't even make it to S84, so making progression slower would end up being much worse.

Should be quite the opposite actually, starting gear S80 so gap would be smaller and the only focus would be to get S84.

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Most ppl leave after hero remove oly bcs it makes only couple farmers happy and rest get mad burn leave at all and make  some hero coin 1day from epic or some stats /day   or atleast remove hero weaps on h5 so in one day 20 top weap not apear in server besause most guyz here do not farm weap  just wait for hero bow or 2h  as wc dwarf se bd or any other useless main class  

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I remember a season wich you picked the certifications skills by reaching subclasses to 85 lvl also a new comer will never stand a chance against a rank 8 or above. I think you should make another way to obtain the certification skills and not through leveling your rank or maybe just remove them at all....

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i don't even know why u bring this Olympiad sh1t on a PVP servah'  Give dem' just the frkin glow das' it there u go , u a hero. #@$#@ your mom. Remove oly , evey1 quits after oly started cause of farmers. It's not enough they own them on field , now they own the oly and exploit everything , there u go xD> 

Edited by Zirconium

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Like hero made any difference here  it would make sense and realy if thats the reason ppl quit... well nothing can stop them then.

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17 hours ago, lovehate said:

Raid bosses - Remove items full drop, implement shard system. Example: by attending X zakens u get X shards which will give u the opportunity to take the epic jewel, temporary or not, u choose.

I like this - if you wanted to still add the excitement element Zaken could have 100% chance to drop 1-100 shards, and the earring requires 1000 or something like that so it is not as static. 

  • Subclass certification skills by attaining rank 8 makes strong get stronger and makes it more difficult for newbies. level your sub to 85 to get the specific skill. it wont be as easy as it sounds bc people still need to pay for subclass and then need to decide if they want to lvl their subs in xp zone or farm sp for enchant skills.
  • Slowly Implement new content to excite players and motivate them to keep playing (ie kamael race on week 2, heroes week 3, etc). if the shard system is adopted then you can remove epics from gm shop and slowly introduce epic rbs (valakas day 1, baium day 2, zaken day 3, etc) until all are introduced then we rotate them into the current respawn schedule.
  • Mages were nerfed which discouraged most, the changes today were a good improvement though

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What about making Heroes daily or 2 days maximum? Like that everyone has a chance and olympiads will be more crowded.

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6 hours ago, Emerald said:

Terrible side effect of killing the economy, so that's a big no.

Also has a side effect of giving the ability to create alt clans a lot easier, so that's a no aswell, and giving clan skills to everyone is just the same as removing clan skills alltogether, don't like it.

This was considered before and can be considered again, basically I do like the excitement the current randomness brings to whoever manages to pick the jewel, but we could see if giving coins to all these who took part in the raid could end up better - would require a deeper thought on how to approach it exactly.

Most people who quit don't even make it to S84, so making progression slower would end up being much worse.

Should be quite the opposite actually, starting gear S80 so gap would be smaller and the only focus would be to get S84.

I tried to explain what was wrong  by my pov..

i had first top duals after barely 1 week because 4 of us were farming for it
we got full clan skills after 5 days because everyone in the clan was donating 10k each day

this is a huge gap to have vs newcomers or casuals

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46 minutes ago, lovehate said:

i had first top duals after barely 1 week because 4 of us were farming for it
we got full clan skills after 5 days because everyone in the clan was donating 10k each day

And I see completely no problems with that, that's how the game works, everywhere - I do not intend to change it.

You should really stop trying to find reasons in game features that makes people quit, be it clans/olympiad/bosses or whatever (things that existed since EVER here and we still had much better seasons).

People will always find excuses to quitting, and I think this season it was the most obvious one when one clan decided to quit after losing a raid / siege with the most idiotic excuse i've ever saw "gm edit chars".

People on one hand want to have good competition but once they lose it, they go full salty mode and even god cannot stop them from quitting.

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Imo reduce adena scroll boost by another 25%

disable all s84 drops till the 1st craftable weapon of that kind has been created (same for armor).. make jewels obtained by those drops non tradable, non sellable to players (still can sell to npc)

make only possible to have 1 castle or fort, and make the time of siege different for each to make it possible for latinos/americans gmt obtain it 

make raid boss spawn non-random.. announce it on forum at least for the 1st month... most epics these season spawn at worse gmt possible

make olympiad cycle 2 weeks

make siege after the 2nd week

create more accurate map voting system to avoid large maps when low ppl

lower requeriments of kills/top/assists for support classes to rank up

fix tyrant damage/hp/pdef/mdef

boost starting gear after some time server has been up

++ for shard system - after 10 baiums u attented u can get 1 baium ring by shards, or sell it to other players

 

 

 

 

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AND give a clear positioning of interface use - what can u have, what u can not

Start using prison to give players penalty, instead of ban

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Also create double adena hour event just like with double xp, for periods of night when low ppl online

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2 hours ago, JohnnieWalker said:

I like this - if you wanted to still add the excitement element Zaken could have 100% chance to drop 1-100 shards, and the earring requires 1000 or something like that so it is not as static. 

  • Subclass certification skills by attaining rank 8 makes strong get stronger and makes it more difficult for newbies. level your sub to 85 to get the specific skill. it wont be as easy as it sounds bc people still need to pay for subclass and then need to decide if they want to lvl their subs in xp zone or farm sp for enchant skills.
  • Slowly Implement new content to excite players and motivate them to keep playing (ie kamael race on week 2, heroes week 3, etc). if the shard system is adopted then you can remove epics from gm shop and slowly introduce epic rbs (valakas day 1, baium day 2, zaken day 3, etc) until all are introduced then we rotate them into the current respawn schedule.
  • Mages were nerfed which discouraged most, the changes today were a good improvement though

dwarfs week 1,  orcs week 2, elves week 3, d elves week 4, kamaels week 5, humans week 6.

Satisfied?

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21 hours ago, lovehate said:

What can we do exactly to make the server more desirable to both new comers and people that start from day 1?

this is a GvE faction server where everyone is supposed to have fun both if u are a casual solo player or not.

just throwing out some ideas, u can feel free to contribute, disapprove or talk about it:

1. Adena- Make it self only, not tradeable. Like that u prevent CPs or group of friends farming everyone for 1 goal which they can abuse my dominating others because of overgear.
2. Clan Skills - Just give every clan full clan skills or even to people without clan, like that only people that gather up and start giving adena donations everyday to the clan will manage to have those passive faster and be stronger.
3. Raid bosses - Remove items full drop, implement shard system. Example: by attending X zakens u get X shards which will give u the opportunity to take the epic jewel, temporary or not, u choose.


 

1. Adena - This could actually make all the sense in the world, but that also means no more trading between players, which in the end could not be a bad thing whatsoever. People would depend on server merchant to sell & buy everything and everyone will evolve at their own pace, not with the help of CPs. People won't be selling FA from start cuz no1 can buy it and donors will get their items after 1-2 weeks when they can exchange FA for 2a only.

 

2. Clan Skills - could be all/partially removed. Again, organised CP/groups will improve their chars even more because they have the adena for it. It does make a huge difference if you have full clan skills fighting vs no clan skills at all (most people are clanless anyway and get rekt quickly). People don't join clans because everyone asks for money, and you never know what to expect from that clan. You could just pay 20k adena and find out they are just a bunch of nubs/douche and you might end up leaving it and losing your investment.

 

3. Raid bosses - It's such a nice idea. At least players would know that after an X number of raid participation they will finally get it anyway, and those lucky one will get it faster. You could also make this a one time only to not be exploited by no-lifers.

 

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

And I see completely no problems with that, that's how the game works, everywhere - I do not intend to change it.

Please excuse them for trying to actually provide legit improvements to your server. Maybe put some glasses if you don't see a problem with that. The gap is there .... and the bigger it gets, the faster they (casuals/newcomers) leave.

NWA this season got all nolifers and people with your server knowledge farming in small CPs and got everything possible in ~1 week. This made most people leave ....and now most of NWA left too cuz no more randoms/new people to kill with their items. seems legit. 

I don't actually blame those new guys (404 or what the name was) for talking about edited chars, because first of all, they don't know your server setup and how things work. There is no clear documentation/knowledge base to your "custom" server features. 

Try to make attribute stones/crystals free or a lot cheaper. Don't force people to fight Lv.2 attributes vs Lv. 7 ... You can have all the items in the world +6->9 if you don't have attributes defenses up. I've seen in some other topics that you were thinking about removing them all together. That's not an option. Leave the mind games to have their role. I'm 100% sure you will see way less complains about damage overall after this change....

 

Good luck with whatever you decide. Won't be here to see it anyway cuz I'm out of this mess.

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Economic problems? I am a graduate and work as an economic scientist, I have some tips.
1st Adena. Little currency in the economy and few products, makes money more valuable than it really is. +GAP
           Increase the currency flow, so the margin for trading increases (No savers).  -GAP
           Increase supply and demand options. -GAP
2nd Bonus for set armor abuse. I'm not sure how this works but it sets a precedent, to powerful weapons and boss jewels with basic sets to earn bonuses. + GAP
3rd Farm area used by bots. New players cannot access the area because older players use the main character to protect their bots.
4º The main events happen at different times. That is, the strongest participate in everything with everything, 
                                              example would be to make a Boss or another, a castle or another would have to choose and prioritize, 
                                              thus opening space for the others.

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2 hours ago, zosiek said:

dwarfs week 1,  orcs week 2, elves week 3, d elves week 4, kamaels week 5, humans week 6.

Satisfied?

lol week 1 would be funny af i would tell you that. many servers adopt the progression model. new content can also be released by having 60% of server being rank 4 or higher, xxxdaily missions completed, i think you understand the idea. you could postpone subclass certs as well.

the sad reality is that the lifecycle of a l2 server is short. progression extends server life and keeps players interested, around for longer, and closes the gap between nolifers and casuals.

btw  kamaels were introduced after 6 updates of l2 where clearly things started to go downhill. not sure why it is such a taboo suggestion as it seems only the trickster and soulhound fanbois are upset.

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8 hours ago, JohnnieWalker said:

btw  kamaels were introduced after 6 updates of l2 where clearly things started to go downhill. not sure why it is such a taboo suggestion as it seems only the trickster and soulhound fanbois are upset.

Thats why you have this many IL(tetrislude) servers. If you like it stay there.

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Tbh, its 2020, ppl want everything right away, but if they get it they are bored, if it takes too much to get it and they see nolifers get it fast they are just leaving cuz they didnt put that much effort into it. Sadly there isnt a golden route inbetween these things. Ppl are jumping servers every 2 week, maybe 1 month for a low arte like x3 or so. We just gotta play until we have fun i guess.

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Like someone who join in time, when all already almost everyone qq about the end bla bla.

U need to understant one thing ppl came on faction to pvp, not farm and not listen stupid non sences from fully geared ppl like i saw lately. So if there will be sligtly difference between someone who just join and someone who play here month its fine, cuz ppl are here to for pvp omg....

Ofc new ppl will leave, when join little bit l8ter and there is one side fully geared and dominate every event just think about that a little bit.There need to be couple items difference between items, not top gun, rb jewels, full attri  vs dyna lol

Cuz i join like 5 days ago for 3 days only, but what i read sometimes in game its really sad...

Anyway this server loves archers or what ? Why almost all map are so open... In mid rates i didnt saw archer cp like rly long time and here 60% archer lol

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40 minutes ago, HatersGonnaHate said:

Anyway this server loves archers or what ? Why almost all map are so open... In mid rates i didnt saw archer cp like rly long time and here 60% archer lol

Most players love to play archers (top3 popular classes among all are trickster, ghost sentinel and sagittarius).

Map is selected by voting. Easy to guess what map will be selected next.

Also archer is the class least dependent on healer in mass pvp with strong lack of healers on server this season.

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On 4/8/2020 at 8:07 AM, Rhaegar said:

i remember maybe 3-4 years ago, the OVC H5 season would last so much longer - It was much harder to craft items; starting I believe was B grade and from S grade onwards you had to craft them with mats etc. This made progression much slower; therefore people would be enticed to play longer maybe? Dunno.. just a thought

There are couple reasons of that.

1st- almost all classes was working how they should by w/o any restriction on skills with little nerfs and easy to get  subclass certification retail like

2nd- there was less %population organised ppl in clans they where more like clan  groups of individuals

3th no masterwork items (they where only on vesper noble sets maybe)

4th no stons with better enchant  chance = less dominatione of ppl who play longer (snowball effect)

This 2 h5 seasons show how its  different from retail. You can actually name it as new chronicle l2 ovc Emerald chronicle. That why ppl who know h5 will never play it because of changes they are not used to on other servers.

Edited by Venth
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