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Dagger Skills Bug summary

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Just now, wetCat said:

l2j player just got destroyed lelzzzzzz

1v1 anytime, pm sin.

come with your dagger i'll fight with no armor so you have a chance.

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anyone who played on l2off and tested bluff for 5 minutes he would realize its both mental and stun attack. 

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, ss123 said:

anyone who played on l2off and tested bluff for 5 minutes he would realize its both mental and stun attack. 

Bluff has 2 mental attacks through detarget and turning back and 1 wich is shock true.Majestic set could make difference in every interlude official like i played between being stuned or not by a dagger.But dunno maybe they changed this in later chronicles and made stun from bluff mental also.

Anyway pointless to say that in L2ovc all 3 attacks are very close to 0% chance.U need just a zaken for example(not even mental or resist shock buffs) and dagger becomes a facestabber for life.

Edited by Tarzanule

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My opinion on daggers is fix the land rates( prioritize on th tho), do something about bluff and nerf the damage a bit.

Because right know th is the most useless dagger for frag because he does less dps and he lands less blows, gh/pw with epics can 2 shots mages if lethal crits.

Anyway I have a lot of fun with th and if I play really well I can get closer to gh/pw frags but  I wouldn't mind a nerf on damage from the formula while also increasing the land rate for blows.

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Daggers are doing just fine, bluff lands sometimes, but they are hard to kill, even on crowds, and land hits for over 6k, and mostly do more than 40 kills on a map. Complaining because it's free? Providing them crowd control is not the solution, plus backstab works fine, when i run it works 100% when they hit me from the back.

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11 hours ago, elxdark said:

1v1 anytime, pm sin.

come with your dagger i'll fight with no armor so you have a chance.

Steve-Carell-Facepalm.gif

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6 hours ago, UmaruChan said:

Daggers are doing just fine, bluff lands sometimes, but they are hard to kill, even on crowds, and land hits for over 6k, and mostly do more than 40 kills on a map. Complaining because it's free? Providing them crowd control is not the solution, plus backstab works fine, when i run it works 100% when they hit me from the back.

They doing fine like aw/pw but this doesnt mean daggers are allright with skills,because they are buged.And also this doesnt mean bluff needs be 0% chance because they have good damage,it just need be legit.And no backstab doesnt work fine,u go make th and test someone in the back and see if its 100%.

Basically all your post is junk based on fantasies rather than reality.

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I need someone to work closely with me in fixing the issues mentioned here (someone who knows what he is talking about and can provide legit details so I can provide accurate fixes).

Send me a PM.

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dagger prob: lethal hits more than bstab

                      aw/pw good cuz of focus death

                      th trash, low skill landing, mirage insanely op late game (and annoying)

                     if u use a dagger skill and your target run, (if u dont click to the side just keep spamming the skill) it buggs somehow in the auto walking and probably u never gonna land the skill (check 22:52 - 22:56) 

 

Edited by Lesley

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also geodata is bad, please fix it before relaunching server. obvious at 8:52 - 8:54 and many other clips that i didnt put into the video

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The biggest problem with geodata is that it mess with speed relations.I mean a faster melee class cant chase and hit his slower target if map is with alot of space.This chase and hit bug its caused because of animation stops before hiting and when u retake the chase its all over again.Others time instead of stop animation hit u just get teleported back further from target.This problem appears from what i see when chaser and chased one are both with speed 200+.

Edited by Agent
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"Others time instead of stop animation hit u just get teleported back further from target "

 

Yes this also happens alot i wish i had on clip. the geodata issues are not that easy to see but they are gamebreaking when happen

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yea this geodata bug where you was behind your target and if it was running even if you had more speed you could never catch him

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As someone who played only dagger, here, in many other server and in all type of chronicles I will say my opinion:

There is only 3 issues with the daggers - lower deadly blow dmg, sometimes skills fail because of geodata( not so critical, it's unpleasant but Emerald knows how many things I've ever complained about but not from this) and dagger with Haste does the same damage as dagger with CD(the same grade).

The most critical one is that CD SA does not work correctly and there is no difference what SA daggers will have, that's why many prefer haste because attack speed can be feel unlike CD.

People here complain about TH success rate but success is OK for sure.  You forget that TH has mirage and dash and no focus death(the main reason for lower skill success), if you want TH with the same skill success rate as elfs then just delete elf daggers from the game. Everyone will run in dash+ mirage and with success rate of elfs server will be full of THs and QQ topics here will be a lot. Everyone can post fraps in different situations and according to what he wants but TH can not have the same skill success rate  and everyone should knows this ! I will also put one fraps at the end although it is from GF official server where the success rate of TH is the same.

There are enough examples of this server that TH can be the best killer on the map and to everyone who complain from TH I can say just one - learn to play before QQ.

I will also tell you to leave Emerald  and not ask him to fack the server asking for things that you want because you can not play with the character or you can not use your hands ! 

If you can not make kills with TH in ovc, the guilt is not on the server or on the character but in you !

People here constantly complain of something without thinking... for many is new that titan in frenzy can kill them in 2-3 hits, its new than with magnus they sacrifice physical defense for speed, its new  that if you do not have resists you will receive big damage from mages,  and also is new than TH has lower skill success.....

People here love to want things from Emerald that fack the server and then blame him...

Accept it - TH has mirage and dash and lower skill success rate !  This is the law of every chronicle  and it is logical to be, otherwise elfs daggers will be useless !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ClGdBsTNQ

Edited by ichakala

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It seems that ichakala wrote it before me, and while i completely agree with him, as someone who played this server for 5 seasons, all of them mostly with dagger/archer/mage i will write my opinion anyway.
First of all, daggers are major significance in this server, not only because they are the 3rd most played class in last 2-3 seasons, but because a lot of ppl seems to lack the knowledge of how exactly they should work, hence by qqing about them and giving wrong suggestions if Emerald listen to them it could harm and lead the server being even less class sided, as most of u know (i hope) in IL endgame generally speaking there are 3 classes that rule in pvp (even with the frenzy nerf u can add Destro to the list, Gladis & Tyrants are hugely nerfed). In my first seasons in OVC, there weren't so many daggers playing, and those who did play them considerably that comes to my mind are Chaks, Niomode, priny and that russian GH (can't remember his name atm). Last 2 seasons i saw so many fail mages from previous seasons (won't mention them), who were constantly moaning about being owned by daggers who did re-roll from mages to daggers leading to significant increase of dagger population and even more moaning from other fail mages.
Back on point, daggers aren't so OP as most of the players make them, it's just that huge part of them do not know how to play against them.
The things that need a rework are:
Lethal blow really hits more from back then it should, but as a 3rd class skill with higher based dmg it should not hit less then deadly blow as a lot of guys in this server are telling.
Mirage land rate is higher then it should be, and while indeed that TH misses blows more then it should and needs to be checked, that does not mean it should have the same % of blow success rate of GH/WR with Focus Death lol.
Last season we had the likes of Sin who played TH and had equal kills to other top daggers, at the end of the season Juls switched from GH to TH and did more kills then the rest of the daggers ( i know ... mirage was quite annoying ..) So TH ain't useless as some are trying to make u believe. Making TH's skill land rate closer to GH/WR will be huge mistake, leading the last two daggers being useless.
Not to mention that Bluff, Trick, Switch land rates are lower then they should be and with that well known geodata problem which affects daggers (other close range dds too) and in the end, after all, daggers aren't so "OP" as a lot here are trying to make.

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Daggers were buged period.Now about them being OP this is something debatable but if they werent they were on the edge.I mean lethal blow spike damage was too big and when u chased many times was like this lethal blow run after target lethal blow again and target dies,when u chase people cooldown is fast enough to just use lethal,and people spamed only lethal none gived a sh1t about backstab wich is hilarious....daggers not backstabing from back but lethal from all positions:).Not that gh/aw had the bigest critical damage from focus death (90% wich may be another bug because for stabs should be lower btw).So combined bigger damage from lethal+ bigger bonus from focus death bonus+the fact aw/pw dont miss lethal blow made ghost hunter trucks with 240 speed.

Now about th none said they are not playable and they make kills.But th had a big problem wich was buged backstab landrate.Missing 3-4 sometimes in a row and u knew it was wrong.Even Sin said it himself he makes more frags with gh than th.Daggers like sin poop climax abused at max their class meaning 238 permaspeed ghost hunters (without blinding) from OP ww 3 rebirths and by using powi.To compensate the use of powi they had perma bishops.

I tell this about daggers since some seasons ago,it was never a qq.Im glad Emerald finally got my attention about it,and see something is wrong about their skills and he tries to fix.

About titan i saw previous season frenzy gaved more p atk.So i asked a fix for this also.It mattered only in olympiad cause in event this so called bug had negligible impact.None said daggers shouldnt hit hard.But the thing is shouldnt hit harder than they are suposed to and not getting more bonus from their skills than it should.

 

Edited by Agent

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6 hours ago, Redman said:

It seems that ichakala wrote it before me, and while i completely agree with him, 
The things that need a rework are:
Lethal blow: <<  really hits more from back then it should >> , but as a 3rd class skill with higher based dmg it should not hit less then deadly blow as a lot of guys in this server are telling.
Mirage: land rate is higher then it should be, and while indeed that TH misses blows more then. !

Not: to mention that Bluff, Trick, Switch land rates are lower then they should be and with that well known geodata problem which affects daggers (other close range dds too) and in the end, after all, daggers aren't so "OP" as a lot here are trying to make.

 

Exactly... @Emerald

Edited by Abc*

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3 hours ago, Agent said:

Daggers were buged period.Now about them being OP this is something debatable but if they werent they were on the edge.I mean lethal blow spike damage was too big and when u chased many times was like this lethal blow run after target lethal blow again and target dies,when u chase people cooldown is fast enough to just use lethal,and people spamed only lethal none gived a sh1t about backstab wich is hilarious....daggers not backstabing from back but lethal from all positions:).Not that gh/aw had the bigest critical damage from focus death (90% wich may be another bug because for stabs should be lower btw).So combined bigger damage from lethal+ bigger bonus from focus death bonus+the fact aw/pw dont miss lethal blow made ghost hunter trucks with 240 speed.

Now about th none said they are not playable and they make kills.But th had a big problem wich was buged backstab landrate.Missing 3-4 sometimes in a row and u knew it was wrong.Even Sin said it himself he makes more frags with gh than th.Daggers like sin poop climax abused at max their class meaning 238 permaspeed ghost hunters (without blinding) from OP ww 3 rebirths and by using powi.To compensate the use of powi they had perma bishops.

I tell this about daggers since some seasons ago,it was never a qq.Im glad Emerald finally got my attention about it,and see something is wrong about their skills and he tries to fix.

About titan i saw previous season frenzy gaved more p atk.So i asked a fix for this also.It mattered only in olympiad cause in event this so called bug had negligible impact.None said daggers shouldnt hit hard.But the thing is shouldnt hit harder than they are suposed to and not getting more bonus from their skills than it should.

 

U seem to forget how mad u went when u lost with ur TH 1v1 against my GH and started explaining to me how a TH can't lose to an GH/WR, that the TH is the best dagger in every chronicle and other gibberish like that.
So, we should nerf Lethal blow to the ground because some copycat daggers were spamming it and those lame ppl who got themselves in the situation 1v1 with a dagger kept running away and kept dying ? Like they would not die from a backstab lol ... Do u think if Lethal Blow dmg formula was normal, and the daggers used backcstab from the back instead of Lethal blow would lead to result different than a dead target ? As i wrote above, the problem with Lethal blow is that it often hits more from the back than it should, nothing wrong with doing more dmg than deadly blow or hitting 1k frontal to mages.
And how exactly were sin,poop,climax abusing their chars by using a server feature like Rebirth WW on POWi ? Is it their fault that 95% of the players are headless noobs who don't know basic things pvping against daggers ? Those daggers chose that setup knowing that it will sacrifice their survivability 1v1 but it will gain them extra mobility and frags overall on maps and i don't see nothing wrong with that.
 
  

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4 hours ago, Agent said:

Daggers were buged period.Now about them being OP this is something debatable but if they werent they were on the edge.I mean lethal blow spike damage was too big and when u chased many times was like this lethal blow run after target lethal blow again and target dies,when u chase people cooldown is fast enough to just use lethal,and people spamed only lethal none gived a sh1t about backstab wich is hilarious....daggers not backstabing from back but lethal from all positions:).Not that gh/aw had the bigest critical damage from focus death (90% wich may be another bug because for stabs should be lower btw).So combined bigger damage from lethal+ bigger bonus from focus death bonus+the fact aw/pw dont miss lethal blow made ghost hunter trucks with 240 speed.

Now about th none said they are not playable and they make kills.But th had a big problem wich was buged backstab landrate.Missing 3-4 sometimes in a row and u knew it was wrong.Even Sin said it himself he makes more frags with gh than th.Daggers like sin poop climax abused at max their class meaning 238 permaspeed ghost hunters (without blinding) from OP ww 3 rebirths and by using powi.To compensate the use of powi they had perma bishops.

I tell this about daggers since some seasons ago,it was never a qq.Im glad Emerald finally got my attention about it,and see something is wrong about their skills and he tries to fix.

About titan i saw previous season frenzy gaved more p atk.So i asked a fix for this also.It mattered only in olympiad cause in event this so called bug had negligible impact.None said daggers shouldnt hit hard.But the thing is shouldnt hit harder than they are suposed to and not getting more bonus from their skills than it should.

 

Lethal in front does much less damage and it works completely correct here. If daggers do not use backsab here then those who play with them have a problem with the game. As I said lethal damage is absolutely OK here and seems correct compared with other servers(other chronicles).

The problem with daggers who use pow can be easy solved but it depends from the community. With pow daggers have a lot of speed but they also have lower p def(m def is not so important). Of course every archer prefer to get any robe user on target because of easier frag but 2 archers can make crazy dagger with pow. The problems is that no one do it. This is not a problem related with the game/bug/issue just here everyone prefer to kill newbies than to clean stronger players first. Make archer pt and get pow dagger on assist and watch him at the end of the map how much frags he will make...

As I remember there were few THs who have never complained about skill success( correct me if I'm wrong with the names - VOA, Priny just for examples), they had not problem to kill almost everyone on the map doesn't matter what type of char is he, so for me the issue seems in the drivers not in the characters.

It is normal TH skills to miss on light users and time to time even on robes, the chance for success is much lower than chance of elfs. This is so in every chronicle, accept it as compensation for having dash and mirage :)

 

PS: forgot to mention that every tirant can make every dagger crazy even without killing him....

Edited by ichakala

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32 minutes ago, ichakala said:

Lethal in front does much less damage and it works completely correct here. If daggers do not use backsab here then those who play with them have a problem with the game. As I said lethal damage is absolutely OK here and seems correct compared with other servers(other chronicles).

The problem with daggers who use pow can be easy solved but it depends from the community. With pow daggers have a lot of speed but they also have lower p def(m def is not so important). Of course every archer prefer to get any robe user on target because of easier frag but 2 archers can make crazy dagger with pow. The problems is that no one do it. This is not a problem related with the game/bug/issue just here everyone prefer to kill newbies than to clean stronger players first. Make archer pt and get pow dagger on assist and watch him at the end of the map how much frags he will make...

As I remember there were few THs who have never complained about skill success( correct me if I'm wrong with the names - VOA, Priny just for examples), they had not problem to kill almost everyone on the map doesn't matter what type of char is he, so for me the issue seems in the drivers not in the characters.

It is normal TH skills to miss on light users and time to time even on robes, the chance for success is much lower than chance of elfs. This is so in every chronicle, accept it as compensation for having dash and mirage :)

 

PS: forgot to mention that every tirant can make every dagger crazy even without killing him....

Chaks :) the problem with daggers is that their damage from 3 main stabs are disproportionated.I posted a video u can study it and see for your self cause i already did that.I suspected daggers were buged by quite some time ago and researched and now i have no doubt about it.If we exclude soulshot extra bonus for backstab wich is exactly 20% additional damage all stabs should be arround same damage.Yes deadly should be arround same damage as lethal,doesnt matter lethal is 3rd class skill,lethal cant be enchanted for damage.So if we include this additional small bonus that backstab gets from soulshots,backstab is the hardest hitter than followed by lethal,deadly.

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L2OvC samples

deadly blow(~1000 damage)----->http://imgur.com/a/P8lSU

lethal blow(~1600 damage)------>http://imgur.com/a/1b7vJ

backstab(~1300 damage)-------->http://imgur.com/a/Oa36m

Retail samples

Frame 0:16 backstab 2270 ,lethal blow 3995(skill crit x2 damage)

Frame 2:02 lethal blow 2091,deadly 1977.

This is small example,who is still not convinced can surf this retail videos and convince himself that lethal is not the supreme stab when it comes to damage.Its more close to deadly blow in damage actually while backstab is the hardest hitter by a small ammount.All this 3 skills can skill crit once in a while and this skill crit bonus is always the same ammount bonus exactly x2(twice as much).

 

 

Edited by Agent

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1 hour ago, Redman said:

U seem to forget how mad u went when u lost with ur TH 1v1 against my GH and started explaining to me how a TH can't lose to an GH/WR, that the TH is the best dagger in every chronicle and other gibberish like that.
So, we should nerf Lethal blow to the ground because some copycat daggers were spamming it and those lame ppl who got themselves in the situation 1v1 with a dagger kept running away and kept dying ? Like they would not die from a backstab lol ... Do u think if Lethal Blow dmg formula was normal, and the daggers used backcstab from the back instead of Lethal blow would lead to result different than a dead target ? As i wrote above, the problem with Lethal blow is that it often hits more from the back than it should, nothing wrong with doing more dmg than deadly blow or hitting 1k frontal to mages.
And how exactly were sin,poop,climax abusing their chars by using a server feature like Rebirth WW on POWi ? Is it their fault that 95% of the players are headless noobs who don't know basic things pvping against daggers ? Those daggers chose that setup knowing that it will sacrifice their survivability 1v1 but it will gain them extra mobility and frags overall on maps and i don't see nothing wrong with that.
 
  

Cut the crap already with your trash,bug are bugs and now deal with it.1st step is to accept it.Its a difference between nerf and fix it was never a cry,i wont read your all whole wall of text u are non grata for me,a prick and an ungrateful rat.

Edited by Agent

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Truth hurts, eh ? U are one big crybaby and everyone knows that :D You can continue watching youtube fraps of servers and offi clients to educate yourself, we don't need to do that cuz we actually played them.

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As I said you can find different videos and they will not prove anything. Interlude is an old chronicle, and most info pages no longer exist ....

Yet I can give you some information and use it as you want : 

Blows have special effects implemented with Chronicle 5.

- lethal strike

It has 2 effects :
- Effect 1 - In PvP, all CP’s target vanish.
- Effect 2-  In PvP, target’s HP and CP reduced to 1.

Deadly Blow, Backstab and Blinding Blow can provide only lethal strike effect 1.

For sure lethal blow can does more damage than backstab(your fraps is not correct, Squeez has not full buffs, his items, dyes are unknown, his targets buffs are unknown, he is not lvl 80, he has not rebirths, he has not buff bonus from voting and so on)

- Critical Skill

Double damage done. Critical Skill appears at a good rate. With full buffs appears almost always( this is a partial answer to your question about lethal blow - critical skill + effect 2 = more damage than backstab)

If Lethal Strike and Critical Skill appears in the same time, you make massive damage to your target. That’s why people complain about the 1-2 shots of daggers.

If you compare lethal and backstab in l2db(backstab - https://l2db.info/high-five/skills/30-backstab  ; lethal -  https://l2db.info/high-five/skills/344-lethal-blow )you will notice difference in "effect_point " - lethal has 337 while backstab has 305. If you look in  the algorithms that calculating the damage( I doubt you find the exact ones and they can be different than these used by ovc)  you will find that these numbers matter.

Do not forget also that lethal has more power than backstab ( 5773 vs 5479 ).

Do not forget that lethal is third class skill that has more pvp damage bonus than other blows.

If you want me to give you fraps in which lethal does more damage than backstab  just type "dvp" in youtube and enjoy. You will see how deadly does more damage than backstab and lethal does 2 times more than both. Also you will see how often his skills fail against characters that are much lower level than him. And do not forget about the difference in buffs and that people from fraps are not able to use toggle skills all the time because of mana.

I said many, many times that comparisons from the official and here are meaningless.....

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2 hours ago, Redman said:

Truth hurts, eh ? U are one big crybaby and everyone knows that :D You can continue watching youtube fraps of servers and offi clients to educate yourself, we don't need to do that cuz we actually played them.

What u say is irrelevant,you are not worth the bait and my attention.you are a rat in pvp and a rat when I thought I know you by playing aside.you go cultivate yourself.its in your face the proof of bugs but u keep your shit up

You came here to lick some ass from chaks but don't worry he's not you and not a rat so don't speak we in his name

He's not a rat and for sure not a scammer like you are

 

Edited by Agent

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