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Dagger Skills Bug summary

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In every version of ovc I have played, TH skill land rate has been so bad that the class is unplayable. 

Let me start by saying that ALL dagger skill land rate is much lower than it should be, I say this as someone who personally played high level daggers on c5/interlude retail AND on many official files private servers. The only reason PW/AW are remotely playable is that they have focus death which gives +60% skill land rate (maybe mortal strike too because on some servers it gives skill land rate.)

On official files/servers blow land rate is largely not talked about because skills land 90%+ from the back on any target regardless of class. 

PW/AW are actually very strong on this server but TH is literally unplayable compared due to having MUCH lower skill land rate; you literally miss AT LEAST 50% of backstabs from the back of any target. 

 

I would go as far as to say that ALL daggers need to have their skill land rates boosted but maybe nerfed in another way to counterbalance this, but TH NEEDS it in order to be a playable class. At current there is literally zero reason to play the class compared to AW/PW.

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plus dash and mirage nerfed... th is literally useless in comparison to AW/PW.

+1

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this bug is well known since C4-C5 times

every java server had the same formula since then

 

Also another common glitch on java is having BS doing same dmg as other blows

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1 minute ago, KimJongNoo said:

this bug is well known since C4-C5 times

every java server had the same formula since then

thats not true at all, skill land rate has never been this bad on any l2j server i've seen

there have been damage calculation issues yes but ignore damage issues for now, getting skill land-rate fixed first should be the main priority 

on the topic of land rate: watch any TH video from interlude retail (there are thousands on youtube and many posted in other topics) and find one where blow land rate is even close to <90% 

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Posted (edited)

U mean backstab land rate should be close to 90%.Deadly and lethal blow are not that high,they are 50% or something like that.Maybe in later chapters it was increased.Th is nicknamed "lolth" for a reason because he misses stabs.

But what Emerald needs to fix is backstab land rate,i try to convince him backstab is high landrate by default if its done properly.This is how this skill works and shouldnt be in same category as with deadly/lethal.

And damage correlation fix for all 3 stabs trust me its important.I know exactly why aw/pw are 1st tier daggers in l2ovc and th is second hand.Its because of 2 reasons:

-backstab landrate is way too low when it should be pretty much a safe stab for th.For aw/pw no problem they can raise backstab landrate also with focus death but th cannot

-and 2nd its having lethal blow,highest damage stab again its in th disfavour,because its a stab that th can miss offen.If it was backstab highest damage wich should be normal an aw/pw wouldnt kill steal so much.I played an entire season and i really got borred to get kill stealed by all aw and pw that were in my vecinity and hiting same target as me.U get kill steal alot because of having lethal blow highest damage stab higher than backstab damage by quite some factor,they dont miss that stab and have focus death as aditional bonus to boost their stab wich dont miss even further.If it was backstab landrate normal difference meaning high land from correct possition,difference would be only fd. 

Edited by Tarzanule

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Posted (edited)

Well im playing TH for 11 years now its my class i luv him and i mostly play TH (95% i play TH). from my experiance in l2 ovc, with TH always i never encounter a aw/pw who can kill me solo 80%  of times i won even the no lifers had a hard time vs my casual TH (and i dont mean im a superstar homo pro like many ppl do here). Yes the land rate is shit but still TH is a beast so im ok i cant ask for higher land rate cuz it will be unbalanced for the other ppl. Daggers are hardcore from nature especially the humans daggers,  no soft delicate fags like mages and archers so we dont need boost.

Edited by Ntropy

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Ntropy said:

Well im playing TH for 11 years now its my class i luv him and i mostly play TH (95% i play TH). from my experiance in l2 ovc, with TH always i never encounter a aw/pw who can kill me solo 80%  of times i won even the no lifers had a hard time vs my casual TH (and i dont mean im a superstar homo pro like many ppl do here). Yes the land rate is shit but still TH is a beast so im ok i cant ask for higher land rate cuz it will be unbalanced for the other ppl. Daggers are hardcore from nature especially the humans daggers,  no soft delicate fags like mages and archers so we dont need boost.

Whats your name in l2ovc if i may ask?Just to know the almighty th from l2ovc.

Edited by Tarzanule
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Posted (edited)

1.Damage correlations between 3 main stabs is wrong.

2.Backstab landrate is too low. 

Proofs

1.this 3 screenshots i took last season  in l2ovc

 

deadly blow(~1000 damage)----->http://imgur.com/a/P8lSU

lethal blow(~1600 damage)------>http://imgur.com/a/1b7vJ

backstab(~1300 damage)-------->http://imgur.com/a/Oa36m

And this is how damage should be related (random examples from th video)

Frame 2:57 lethal blow--->1954 backstab 2254

Frame 3:11 lethal blow--->1715 deadly blow --->1696 

Frame 7:33 deadly blow--->1056 backstab--->1373

Frame 7:50 lethal blow--->1086 backstab--->1347

Frame 12:09 lethal blow--->2753(skill crit x2 damage) deadly blow--->1342 backstab--->1661

We can see that in retail deadly blow and lethal blow are in close window damage with very small variations compared one to another,while backstab hits slightly harder ~20% more than deadly and lethal.

2.Proofs that backstab has landrate in retail 

Backstab land rate:
Frame/Position/land succes
0:14/back/y
0:29/back/y
0:42/back/y
0:54/back/y
1:03/side/y
1:13/back/y
1:18/back/y
1:28/back/n
1:30/back/y
1:35/front?/y
1:58/front/n
2:09/back/y
2:22/back/y
2:29/back/y
2:42/back/y
2:51/back/y
2:56/back/y
3:20/back/y
4:00/back/y
4:07/back/n
4:32/back/y
4:42/back/y
4:47/front/n
5:09/back/y
5:52/back/y
5:59/back/y
6:35/side/y
6:40/side/y
6:50/side/y
7:00/side/y
7:46/back/y
8:07/side/n
8:17/side/y

Analyze of all backstabs from video

Th performed 33 backstabs in total in this video and were as following:

-3 backstabs from frontal position in wich 1 landed.Ratio of succes 1/3 ~33%

-7 bacstabs from side position in wich 6 landed.Ratio of succes 6/7 ~85%

-23 backstabs from back position in wich 21 landed.Ratio of succes 21/23 ~91%

I would ignore frontal and side conclusion and i would put this as luck and small sample.But last one still quite not enough its a decent high number and can determine some conclusion in wich backstab cannot be same land rate as deadly/lethal from back meaning arround ~50

So this is how l2ovc should have backstab landrate from behind also,its a very high land skill if its performed from correct position.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Tarzanule

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you are right but i doubt it's gonna be changed

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46 minutes ago, Tarzanule said:

1.Damage correlations between 3 main stabs is wrong.

2.Backstab landrate is too low. 

Proofs

1.this 3 screenshots i took last season  in l2ovc

Why you try that hard with this one? He allready told you it aint gonna change.
What do you want? Daggers 1 stab everyone or what? Its a custom server with mc rate decreased 75% mc power 25% and criti like 15%? Why you try to imply off stats for daggers?

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4 minutes ago, ifym said:

Why you try that hard with this one? He allready told you it aint gonna change.
What do you want? Daggers 1 stab everyone or what? Its a custom server with mc rate decreased 75% mc power 25% and criti like 15%? Why you try to imply off stats for daggers?

Yes i want 1 stab everyone now crawl back into your hole worm.

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Just now, Tarzanule said:

Yes i want 1 stab everyone now crawl back into your hole worm.

Sweet response is sweet.

You dont have to be mad.

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backstab alway had a huge landrate as long as I can remember on official server.

 

But I don't like your exemple, Squeez was a really pain in a ass clan leader taxing everyone to get top gears as fast as he could. fucking kid he was.

Also you need to take something in count: These videos are "good fraps" ; I remember Gustavs failing to kill our party and loosing 2 levels to get one fraps of him doing a 1 vs 9 at ToI.

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, ifym said:

Sweet response is sweet.

You dont have to be mad.

Its the response u deserve since u come with your bullsh1t into a legit bug report,and no it doesnt have anything with damage boost.Its up to gm to decide how hard daggers hit(aka class balance) as long the relation is preserverd meaning backstab should be always hardest hitter(20% more) and deadly and lethal have arround same damage.

Edited by Tarzanule

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1 minute ago, Tarzanule said:

Its the response u deserve since u come with your bullsh1t into a legit bug report,and no it doesnt have anything with damage boost.Its up to gm how hard daggers hit as long the relation is preserverd meaning backstab should be always hardest hitter and deadly and lethal have arround same damage.

2replies...still why you need off stats on a custom faction server?

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Just now, ifym said:

2replies...still why you need off stats on a custom faction server?

Because skills and core mechanics are not custom,also whats reported is not a custom thing that gm made with intention.They are just bugs you know.

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6 minutes ago, Tarzanule said:

Because skills and core mechanics are not custom,also whats reported is not a custom thing that gm made with intention.They are just bugs you know.

It wasnt that hard after all.

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Posted (edited)

as I said on a previous topic, l2java interlude clients are well known for their bugs on the blow landrate and skill power

1) Lethalblow will have the highest dmg, BS having a close amount to DB

2) Landrate for blows in most situations is about 30% lower 

 

 

The problem is the Admins on most servers never played L2off, so in their experience everything works just fine so I doubt you will ever see these things changing.

 

*small fact: on infiniteL2 they had landrate fixed

Edited by KimJongNoo
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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, KimJongNoo said:

as I said on a previous topic, l2java interlude clients are well known for their bugs on the blow landrate and skill power

1) Lethalblow will have the highest dmg, BS having a close amount to DB

2) Landrate for blows in most situations is about 30% lower 

 

 

The problem is the Admins on most servers never played L2off, so in their experience everything works just fine so I doubt you will ever see these things changing.

I dont know if its a general java thing,could be dont know.But its not right.And this fixes about 2 main issues i reported in OP should put th aside with aw/pw because right now th its second hand dagger.And for me deadly and lethal rate are fine and good enough.Just backstab shouldnt miss as much and also should be the hardest hitter among all 3 main stabs.

Edited by Tarzanule

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Posted (edited)

Could you answer one question for me please: What's up about mirage, pvp armor mirage ( we surely won't have it, right ? ) and switch ? They should actually have a really good landing aswell... That's kinda what make the TH being a TH, this class can be a pain in the ass because of all the detarget making you able to get behind so... How they was in the last interlude season ?

 

I heard that detarget was kinda shit in java servers, don't really know it's my first one :D

Edited by Niyah

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Niyah said:

Could you answer one question for me please: What's up about mirage, pvp armor mirage ( we surely won't have it, right ? ) and switch ? They should actually have a really good landing aswell... That's kinda what make the TH being a TH, this class can be a pain in the ass because of all the detarget making you able to get behind so... How they was in the last interlude season ?

 

I heard that detarget was kinda shit in java servers, don't really know it's my first one :D

We dont have pvp armor mirage in interlude.This is a hi5 thing.And trick switch are level 74 skills wich u cant oe .They are mental.deragement attacks and is hard to land those vs level 80 players with mental shield and epics that raise deragement/mental resist more.Mirage the skill will ignore all this resists and will trigger when someone does damage to you.

 

Edited by Tarzanule
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Fair enough, interlude will change my game experience for sure, didn't touch this thing since so much years... Also I just hope epics aren't easy access tho, didn't event read the features, waiting to find them ingame in some hours ! I'll let this post clean, sorry for the questions, looked like the right place to ask.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Ntropy said:

Well im playing TH for 11 years now its my class i luv him and i mostly play TH (95% i play TH). from my experiance in l2 ovc, with TH always i never encounter a aw/pw who can kill me solo 80%  of times i won even the no lifers had a hard time vs my casual TH (and i dont mean im a superstar homo pro like many ppl do here). Yes the land rate is shit but still TH is a beast so im ok i cant ask for higher land rate cuz it will be unbalanced for the other ppl. Daggers are hardcore from nature especially the humans daggers,  no soft delicate fags like mages and archers so we dont need boost.

ehhh tbh a half decent th should always win vs aw/pw I think the point of this is to let know that TH is in disadvantage vs other daggers.

To clear this, this isn't a 1v1 dagger thread, it's a class problem.

Edited by elxdark

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Posted (edited)

Well just for info server started today i made a TH and guess what i  missed 6 stabs in a row 3 of them was clear backstabs hahahaah its so ridiculous i luv it :D

Edited by Ntropy

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Posted (edited)

PW is same,even at the back u arent sure that backstab gonna land

 

and also blows goes to shield defense, its even worst with  1 dmage

Edited by henio112

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