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Silence

Season Conclusion part 2

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As I promised, we had a few more things and solutions to mention in the previous post, but this one is more about suggesting changes than asking for "reworks".

1) Allowing people to port with the whole Party to weaker side instead 1 person

This is something we were thinking a lot since you made the feature that prevents clans from joining event when there`s no/low online why not allowing the whole party to join/help weaker side. It could also prevent people that are playing the "im your clanmate dont hit me" game which used to happen a lot on the server.  This kind of balancing seems more fair than making 5 people wait till all of them get ported to the opposite faction because some of them are in that  "ELO 5k" prison.

Also organised parties helping the weaker side can be more game changing that having 2-3 members of it inside. Party Leader should always be able to port his whole party to weaker side.

2) ELO system in Faction Server

ELO is another algorithm i`d like to discuss it seems to not be capped to 5000, we believe it`s just showing 5000, but the number is still growing in a good player hands and after this even if you play badly few maps and your ELO is getting lowered by let`s say -167.

The System still shows that you are at 5000, because it was just one bad map in let`s say 35 good one`s. ELO works in MOBA-like games, but MMORPGs are gear based more than skill sometimes. Can we have the Gear System as balance factor for one season and see the results instead ELO?

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3) Mini Events/Farm zone

Mini Events are great way for people that are less experienced/new to make some income. The thing is that some of them are free-for-all like. Russian Roulettes/Zombies/Lucky Chest/Simon Says should always appear after playing main map.

Bomb Squad is something that should change i would say, most of people don`t like this event and its not really so good for all to grab some adena. Maybe try some Dodgeball Event that would require not gear and be rewarding like Russian Roulette.

The Lucky Chest could be made less luck-depended and more neutral, lets say that people are getting the Unlock Skill for this event and each chest is giving adena+ chance for drop? More Treasure Hunter way-like 😄

About Farm Zone this season had some people that were constantly making new characters and farming there their gear instead joining PvP maps or missions. Main feature should remain as PvP, newbies have buff/tools to make it work. Mission is 15 min of time each day to grab some extra XP and Adena. Cutting the farm zone by half or deleting it and boosting Mission Adena+XP reward is by my opinion a better way to solve this. So there wont be 15-20 people doing farm zones and dying to Veterans that went there after x2 XP/SP appeared, they will get discouraged eventually by things like this. If you decide to delete the Farm Zone then you should make another option for Mission for Solo Players, maybe something like Pailaka from High Five?

4) Armor/Jewel overenchanting compared to Weapon

I was wondering if the enchant rate for Armors/Jewels are keept retail-like also, because weapons are for sure. Making S grade weapon+10 is easy compared to making set S Grade+6, if the rates are really untouched. On H5 making armors/jewels +10 was not that hard as it is on Interlude due to the Agathion Scroll help and some luck. But could it be possible to make armors +7-8 more possible than it is right now? +8 should be the reachable number with 800 scrolls, not barely +6. The armors on Interlude aren`t also giving as much as S84 on H5 in the end game.

5) Class Balance/Cap

I don`t see a problem in Archers as majority of the community does, the only time it can become kind of annoying is when one side is playing with 20 mages/healers and the opposite is with 20 Archers.

All the Gladiators/Bishop/Warlords/Overlords are capped or they have their source of damage nerfed a bit, Mages have their m.critical nerfed, Archers just a bit critical damage nerf which i would say is still nothing compared to Mage one, but i dont want to touch Class damage/nerf section, I would suggest making some balance in the future to avoid one-sided Archer assist setups, because you have touched most of the classes, this one especially remains the "least" touched. I dont really have a golden solution for this one, i just wanted to remind about this one. Either balance per side or some cap seems fair to me without touching the core and purpose of the class which is just killing most squishy targets from distance. Having each side with 10vs10 archers is good and cool, but also not all people are fan of the Kite Class and since you touched the Mage`s the way you did, Mage Players are seeking for some kind of Justice on Forum/Shout chat each season. Just consider this argumentation and its consequences.

 

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37 minutes ago, Silence said:

1) Allowing people to port with the whole Party to weaker side instead 1 person

This is something we were thinking a lot since you made the feature that prevents clans from joining event when there`s no/low online why not allowing the whole party to join/help weaker side. It could also prevent people that are playing the "im your clanmate dont hit me" game which used to happen a lot on the server.  This kind of balancing seems more fair than making 5 people wait till all of them get ported to the opposite faction because some of them are in that  "ELO 5k" prison.

Also organised parties helping the weaker side can be more game changing that having 2-3 members of it inside. Party Leader should always be able to port his whole party to weaker side.

This can only be of benefit to the current team balancing issues. Essentially, another option on the gatekeeper that allows the party leader to directly port in the whole party on the weaker side. If both sides are considered balanced, per the current balancing algorithm, the system places the party on waiting list and the players can either wait it out or join the map individually. It is basically a consistent way to rival organised groups on one side without overpowering the other side. It also allows people to play with their friends and, as already mentioned, partly eliminate instances where people don't attack their own clan mates playing on the opposite faction.

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1 hour ago, Silence said:

4) Armor/Jewel overenchanting compared to Weapon - 

I dont angry only with this one because i play this servers only for this reason and some other.

5) Will never happen from many reasons but some ratione of this classes like max dd difference  1(mage)/3 (archer) or 3/1. It could by good

Edited by Venth

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56 minutes ago, Silence said:

1) Allowing people to port with the whole Party to weaker side instead 1 person

This is something we were thinking a lot since you made the feature that prevents clans from joining event when there`s no/low online why not allowing the whole party to join/help weaker side. It could also prevent people that are playing the "im your clanmate dont hit me" game which used to happen a lot on the server.  This kind of balancing seems more fair than making 5 people wait till all of them get ported to the opposite faction because some of them are in that  "ELO 5k" prison.

Also organised parties helping the weaker side can be more game changing that having 2-3 members of it inside. Party Leader should always be able to port his whole party to weaker side.

I don't get how will "group join" help you join faster? if you got members with high ELO you will still suffer from waiting times, doesn't matter if joining 1 by 1 or as group.

57 minutes ago, Silence said:

2) ELO system in Faction Server

Read this:

http://l2ovc.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15227-balance-correctness/

59 minutes ago, Silence said:

Maybe try some Dodgeball Event that would require not gear and be rewarding like Russian Roulette

If you got ideas for new events make dedicated topic for them and post them in full details.

59 minutes ago, Silence said:

The Lucky Chest could be made less luck-depended and more neutral, lets say that people are getting the Unlock Skill for this event and each chest is giving adena+ chance for drop? More Treasure Hunter way-like

Don't see a reason why to over-complicate such a simple event, in general i'm not in favvor of adding anymore custom event-specific skills, there's too much already and people are getting lost.

1 hour ago, Silence said:

About Farm Zone this season had some people that were constantly making new characters and farming there their gear instead joining PvP maps or missions. Main feature should remain as PvP, newbies have buff/tools to make it work. Mission is 15 min of time each day to grab some extra XP and Adena. Cutting the farm zone by half or deleting it and boosting Mission Adena+XP reward is by my opinion a better way to solve this. So there wont be 15-20 people doing farm zones and dying to Veterans that went there after x2 XP/SP appeared, they will get discouraged eventually by things like this. If you decide to delete the Farm Zone then you should make another option for Mission for Solo Players, maybe something like Pailaka from High Five?

I won't delete the farm zone, I actually saw many people enjoying it, when the season begun there wasn't a single empty spot inside that zone - people need to plan their entry time properly.

The only change I might be doing there is reducing just a little bit the drops, because farm zone has already 1 big downside and its the fact you cannot progress with ranks in there.

1 hour ago, Silence said:

I was wondering if the enchant rate for Armors/Jewels are keept retail-like also, because weapons are for sure. Making S grade weapon+10 is easy compared to making set S Grade+6, if the rates are really untouched. On H5 making armors/jewels +10 was not that hard as it is on Interlude due to the Agathion Scroll help and some luck. But could it be possible to make armors +7-8 more possible than it is right now? +8 should be the reachable number with 800 scrolls, not barely +6. The armors on Interlude aren`t also giving as much as S84 on H5 in the end game.

Rates on both servers are retail-like and will be kept that way.

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2 hours ago, Emerald said:

I read the topic already, but you gave few examples on what maps its working, would be nice to know the complete change in Changelist if possible. Thats why I mention sticking only to Gear one.

Quote

Don't see a reason why to over-complicate such a simple event, in general i'm not in favvor of adding anymore custom event-specific skills, there's too much already and people are getting lost.

You have data of how many people are inside that event after first 3 days or you have spectated the amount of unstucks there?Kinda waste of slot i think, if you have for example russian roulette and zombies that are much better for all people.

Quote

Rates on both servers are retail-like and will be kept that way.

Good to know that then ^^ I was just wondering if you kept them for Weapons and lowered on armors.

One more thing to ask, is it possible after you do all the changes to test the features and open some kind of Open Beta Test before each season you made the changes on? One weekend or even whole week is enough for people to get used to some "bigger" changes. You could also find some testers for the whole project, there will be some for sure ^^

Edited by Silence

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He's said before that beta servers are useless. He's done it a few times for different seasons and rarely has it made an impact.He's said before that beta servers are useless. He's done it a few times for different seasons and rarely has it made an impact.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Scaretactic said:

He's said before that beta servers are useless. He's done it a few times for different seasons and rarely has it made an impact.He's said before that beta servers are useless. He's done it a few times for different seasons and rarely has it made an impact.

He could try to make it "rewarding" for the players that are taking part of the beta, i dont rly know "how" but lets say every player that are joining/help during the beta get a reward for the next season.

Not a game breaker reward ofc, but something like 1 XP scrolls or a reward that is getting "unlocked" later in the season like after 2 weeks you get XX item as a reward for joining the beta.

Also the reward shouldnt be given to players that just logged 1 time or did stay afk in base for 1day, something like X hours of event played to be able to get the reward.

 

@EmeraldWhat about the screenshot that @Silencedid post for the elo? you can clearly see that "mafiachampion" lost -137 ELO, but the game system say that "mafiachampion" is still at 5000 ELO.

 

Edited by Advol

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19 hours ago, Silence said:

I read the topic already, but you gave few examples on what maps its working, would be nice to know the complete change in Changelist if possible. Thats why I mention sticking only to Gear one.

What complete changes? the feature will work on all events and will decide automatically which balance method is better.

19 hours ago, Silence said:

You have data of how many people are inside that event after first 3 days or you have spectated the amount of unstucks there?Kinda waste of slot i think, if you have for example russian roulette and zombies that are much better for all people.

If events needs to be changed in order to be funnier / more worthy its not a problem to do, can always play with death chance/respawn time/amount of chests/adena drop and other factors if these are needed.

12 hours ago, Advol said:

@EmeraldWhat about the screenshot that @Silencedid post for the elo? you can clearly see that "mafiachampion" lost -137 ELO, but the game system say that "mafiachampion" is still at 5000 ELO.

That's because ELO keeps increasing past 5k, 5k is just a limit so people won't have to really wait ages to join the event, but if you're worth 10k ELO then that is it.

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On 2/29/2020 at 8:55 PM, Emerald said:

 

Rates on both servers are retail-like and will be kept that way.

^retail like^ spending over 700 eab to trying to make +7 B armor.. never happend 😂

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