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Mak0

Cardinals and other healers need some tuning

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Hello,

I am playing Cardinal as I have been for years, and I have to say I am pretty happy with the level of balance on the server*, but I would like to suggest decreasing the reliance on Chain Heal. Currently, Chain Heal does most of the healing as it is fast too cast, doesn't cost much, the cooldown is low, the range is high and it heals several people at once. While Cardinals have many tools to keep people alive, most of these tools are completely overshadowed by Chain Heal as they are just inferior in every way, and healing barely boils down to Chain Heal on cooldown, Balance Life when Chain Heal is not available (for the next 2 seconds...), and some occasional Major Heal / Cleanse here or there. That's 3-4 buttons.

As I am writing this, most maps are won by which side has the most healers (not the best healers by any means) and who has the most geared SHs (can't really heal a 4k 6k vortex slug combo) on open maps.

My proposal would be to either tune the skill with one of the following points, or a combination of following points (e.g. cooldown to 4 seconds and mana to 350)

  • increase the cooldown of Chain Heal to 6-8 seconds
  • or increase the cast time to match Major Group Heal
  • or reduce the healing done to 15-20% max hp instead of 30% max hp
  • or increase the mana required from 200 to 400-500

On the other hand, Restore Life is much slower to cast than on retail for no apparent reason. Restore Life could be modified so that it becomes viable again, complementing Chain Heal so that Cardinal doesn't lose too much healing output.

Body of Avatar, and I suspect Battle Roar for glad/destro, could also be changed so that they work with Improved Condition.

 

* Additional suggestions below from my observations

  • SH need to lose empowering echo on a server where mana is not an issue. NCSoft dropped the ball when they introduced it, there is no need to keep their mistakes alive.
  • Gladiators and Tyrants are a bit too strong as they can rush every other second (another idiocy from NCSoft) and crit for 4k or more while having 25k hp and a shitload of resists: either increase Rush cooldown to 5-10 seconds, or slightly lower their damage
  • There is basically no reason to play a dagger over a tyrant/glad at the moment. While Warriors have spammable rush and good damage, Daggers struggle by having long cooldown on Shadow Step and no more fighter prophecies that do not reduce movement speed (like Profecy of Wind in Interlude). Furthermore, their damage is currently ridiculously low, although I doubt that the few daggers I have encountered were geared with 300 elements, enchanted skills and AQ/Baium.
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1 hour ago, Mak0 said:

Hello,

I am playing Cardinal as I have been for years, and I have to say I am pretty happy with the level of balance on the server*, but I would like to suggest decreasing the reliance on Chain Heal. Currently, Chain Heal does most of the healing as it is fast too cast, doesn't cost much, the cooldown is low, the range is high and it heals several people at once. While Cardinals have many tools to keep people alive, most of these tools are completely overshadowed by Chain Heal as they are just inferior in every way, and healing barely boils down to Chain Heal on cooldown, Balance Life when Chain Heal is not available (for the next 2 seconds...), and some occasional Major Heal / Cleanse here or there. That's 3-4 buttons.

As I am writing this, most maps are won by which side has the most healers (not the best healers by any means) and who has the most geared SHs (can't really heal a 4k 6k vortex slug combo) on open maps.

My proposal would be to either tune the skill with one of the following points, or a combination of following points (e.g. cooldown to 4 seconds and mana to 350)

  • increase the cooldown of Chain Heal to 6-8 seconds
  • or increase the cast time to match Major Group Heal
  • or reduce the healing done to 15-20% max hp instead of 30% max hp
  • or increase the mana required from 200 to 400-500

On the other hand, Restore Life is much slower to cast than on retail for no apparent reason. Restore Life could be modified so that it becomes viable again, complementing Chain Heal so that Cardinal doesn't lose too much healing output.

Body of Avatar, and I suspect Battle Roar for glad/destro, could also be changed so that they work with Improved Condition.

 

* Additional suggestions below from my observations

  • SH need to lose empowering echo on a server where mana is not an issue. NCSoft dropped the ball when they introduced it, there is no need to keep their mistakes alive.
  • Gladiators and Tyrants are a bit too strong as they can rush every other second (another idiocy from NCSoft) and crit for 4k or more while having 25k hp and a shitload of resists: either increase Rush cooldown to 5-10 seconds, or slightly lower their damage
  • There is basically no reason to play a dagger over a tyrant/glad at the moment. While Warriors have spammable rush and good damage, Daggers struggle by having long cooldown on Shadow Step and no more fighter prophecies that do not reduce movement speed (like Profecy of Wind in Interlude). Furthermore, their damage is currently ridiculously low, although I doubt that the few daggers I have encountered were geared with 300 elements, enchanted skills and AQ/Baium.

i fully support this suggestion.

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I agree with all. The only one part which i disagree is the healer's part. Its not interlude anymore use wild magic and buffs for it and u'll critical heal pretty much. Chainheal is ok, mages outcritting chainheal anyways. 

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i m not agree with it (healer part)cause your vision it's a cardinal vision without think other classes as first of all Overlord already nerfed and counted as healer so with this you are gonna kill it more.Also EE and SE wasn't good healer until h5 cause they gived it ChainHeal

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I agree that healers should be "tuned".

3 hours ago, Mak0 said:
  • increase the cooldown of Chain Heal to 6-8 seconds
  • or increase the cast time to match Major Group Heal
  • or reduce the healing done to 15-20% max hp instead of 30% max hp
  • or increase the mana required from 200 to 400-500

But strongly disagree with methods proposed. They are too complex and possibly game breaking.

Better remove pony buff.

This way healer won't rely on chain heal only since it will be always on delay. Removing pony buff will also solve problem with mages.

Also decrease incoming heal twice on healers and tanks.

The problem is not tanks and tyrants are unkillable, the problem is healers make the unkillable. Decreasing survivability of healers will make battles much faster and will profit to daggers.

2 hours ago, Chevignon said:

either increase Rush cooldown to 5-10 seconds

Strongly disagree.

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About daggers: i made one just for fun...WR/aq/baium,skills enchant on element...i hit low gear mage 1,3-2k while they hit me 1,4-3k (dont talk even about good one gear...its around 5-8k)

This class is a huge joke here and dont even talk sh1t pls ;)

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4 hours ago, Mak0 said:

Hello,

I am playing Cardinal as I have been for years, and I have to say I am pretty happy with the level of balance on the server*, but I would like to suggest decreasing the reliance on Chain Heal. Currently, Chain Heal does most of the healing as it is fast too cast, doesn't cost much, the cooldown is low, the range is high and it heals several people at once. While Cardinals have many tools to keep people alive, most of these tools are completely overshadowed by Chain Heal as they are just inferior in every way, and healing barely boils down to Chain Heal on cooldown, Balance Life when Chain Heal is not available (for the next 2 seconds...), and some occasional Major Heal / Cleanse here or there. That's 3-4 buttons.

As I am writing this, most maps are won by which side has the most healers (not the best healers by any means) and who has the most geared SHs (can't really heal a 4k 6k vortex slug combo) on open maps.

My proposal would be to either tune the skill with one of the following points, or a combination of following points (e.g. cooldown to 4 seconds and mana to 350)

  • increase the cooldown of Chain Heal to 6-8 seconds
  • or increase the cast time to match Major Group Heal
  • or reduce the healing done to 15-20% max hp instead of 30% max hp
  • or increase the mana required from 200 to 400-500

On the other hand, Restore Life is much slower to cast than on retail for no apparent reason. Restore Life could be modified so that it becomes viable again, complementing Chain Heal so that Cardinal doesn't lose too much healing output.

Body of Avatar, and I suspect Battle Roar for glad/destro, could also be changed so that they work with Improved Condition.

making the changes might be ok for cardinals ....but it will affect indirectly the other healers too. I know you don't care about others since your class might still be playable ..... but others will have a hard time. no balance no cleanse .... no BoA no greater battle healz etc etc etc.

Edited by PrayForMercy
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1 minute ago, PrayForMercy said:

making the changes might be ok for cardinals ....but it will affect indirectly the other healers too. I know you don't care about others since your class might still be playable ..... but others will have a hard time.

Reduce crit heal chance or power for cardinal can by balanced like i told in beta

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3 minutes ago, PrayForMercy said:

making the changes might be ok for cardinals ....but it will affect indirectly the other healers too. I know you don't care about others since your class might still be playable ..... but others will have a hard time.

completly agree

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10 minutes ago, PrayForMercy said:

making the changes might be ok for cardinals ....but it will affect indirectly the other healers too. I know you don't care about others since your class might still be playable ..... but others will have a hard time. no balance no cleanse .... no BoA no greater battle healz etc etc etc.

So it could be done directly to bishop class, avoiding the other ones.

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7 minutes ago, l0l said:

So it could be done directly to bishop class, avoiding the other ones.

not sure it can be possible.... As far as I know the healing power/cast time and other things are hard coded on skills directly and do not take class into consideration. The skills are shared between classes also .... so ... it might be difficult.

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3 minutes ago, PrayForMercy said:

not sure it can be possible.... As far as I know the healing power/cast time and other things are hard coded on skills directly and do not take class into consideration. The skills are shared between classes also .... so ... it might be difficult.

What about replace cardinal skills with same name but other id? Maybe patch is needed

Edited by Venth

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5 hours ago, Mak0 said:

Hello,

I am playing Cardinal

  • increase the cooldown of Chain Heal to 6-8 seconds
  • or increase the cast time to match Major Group Heal
  • or reduce the healing done to 15-20% max hp instead of 30% max hp
  • or increase the mana required from 200 to 400-500

.

I am impressed! it is immediately apparent that this person is new to this community :)

Someone to suggest the character he plays with be nerfed... I didn't believe it could happen.

One of the best suggestions made in this forum!

Mentioned truths about NCSoft that are not a problem in low rate but here they are(something that some "agro-bots" cannot understand).

I completely support it!

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45 minutes ago, Venth said:

and prabobly - 9 str :) with dual dagger

Well,to your information and this another mr. I know everything-like i said i made it for fun,cant afford xx bogs to enchant skills on duel,just wanted check it quickly. Anyway,ovc cancer community in best shape ;)

Edited by VincentVega
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1 minute ago, VincentVega said:

Well,to your information and this another mr. I know everything-like i said i made it for fun,cant afford xx bogs to enchant skills on duel,just wanted check it quickly. Anyway,ovc cancer community in best shape ;)

Terminator Thumbs Up GIF

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33 minutes ago, Venth said:

What about replace cardinal skills with same name but other id? Maybe patch is needed

to much trouble for Emerald.....I think you also need to edit client files to give new id and also server files ...  I just hope this thread will not end up like Dominator thread ....where he got an unneeded nerf and considered a healer in queues.lel

Edited by PrayForMercy

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