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Epoxy

More fun - Less congregation

9 posts in this topic

I am not sure if Emerald has already done in the past, but here's my suggestion. Emerald please bare with me.

 

First I will present the current problem, in my opinion:

I will start this off by saying that my biggest frustration, no matter how many times I played this server, is the people's congregation along with the constant running in circles. This is a complicated problem and it needs to be broken down.

  • First of all we have a humongous area to run. If I die, I will respawn to a random spot. I am gonna need to join my party, cause I'm either the bishop, or we have a bishop, or we play better as a team, it doesn't matter. The first problem here is that I have to run and cover this big distance in order to reach my party members. Meanwhile, some other party member might die and respawn in a random spot, and he has to do the same thing. This leads to being scattered around the map. Here is an example: https://i.imgur.com/XAGSwkB.png

    I am not exaggerating, it is really like this.

    The second problem here, is I might encounter a smaller group of people and die and have to respawn again somewhere random. Either way, precious time is being wasted here.
     
  • In this point I will explain the next issue, and that's the melee characters. In this season I decided to play a melee character, a Tyrant. What I noticed in these few days, is that I really really struggle to get into a fight. After running for about 1-2 minutes and finding a group, I'm gonna need to fight to earn some precious adena. We all know what happens when you make a step further than the rest of your group, no matter the class you are. You are instantly getting targeted and you experience an arrow-rainfall.

    Now imagine going in with a Tyrant. You can't dive in. But there aren't any other solutions as well. I tried to target only mages, or people who were still Rank 1 with bad equipment, but even though I dealt a good amount of damage(to be honest it could be a tat higher, but that's not the point of this thread), but I ran out of time before I died.

    As you can understand, diving is a no-go. I thought, ok, I still have my range skill, I might as well try and take some PvPs that way. The damage is tremendously low, and the only thing I managed to do is to get a few assists. 

    Of course, you cannot just boost all melee characters. This is not a solution, cause melee would be a beast in any 2v1 or 3v1 fight.

    So, until now we have:
    1. Diving into the crowd is a no-go.
    2. Using the range skills will get you assists, but is a waste of time.
    3. Boosting and tweaking the tyrants is out of the question. They are strong as they are.

    Small PS here: All classes are balanced in my honest opinion. Emerald has really outdone him self with this season. I have absolutely no complains; except the tanks, but that has been fixed.
     
  • The third and last point I want to raise is the narrow places, such as Forge of the Gods. Such areas are extremely overcrowded. There aren't many things you can do or strategies to follow, and there aren't many ways you can go. Archers mostly, and mages are thriving here. You can see archers from the back-line firing their arrows, and mages in the middle behind the front liners killing who ever forgot to take a step back. As you can see, melee characters are out of equation here. Even if they rush in, they will get aggro'ed or target-cancelled.

     

My suggestion:


Small intro:
I have been playing Lineage for about 15 years. I'm sure many of the guys here have more than a decade under their belts as well. In these 15 years, I have played countless of servers, either official, either high rate, or mid rate, or low rate, or custom server with weird stuff, as well as faction servers. Faction servers have always been my biggest love. I'm a huge lover of upgrade games, and faction servers feel like it. You constantly grind the precious adena to upgrade your stuff, in order to kill faster and earn adena faster to upgrade your gear faster, only to do all the previous from the beginning, but this time even faster! Faction server is a constant competition for the top place and I love this.

Through the years I have played quite a few faction servers, but there was only one server that I really really loved. I am not gonna state its name tho. This server had its flaws like all servers do, but its virtues were more.

I have also created 2 pvp servers with a few custom items, which have been quite successful. I know how tough is to make a server, and how it is even tougher to maintain it, and my maintaining it I mean maintaining the players. If 20% of the stress comes from building the server, 80% comes from the people. As an admin you're trying to be neutral and objective and keep everyone happy, but we all know it's impossible to keep everyone happy. People complaining for stuff, you fix those, but then other people are complaining and it's a vicious circle. So for the rest of you who are reading this post, please take a step back and try to see things from Emerald's position.

Suggestion:
The point of my suggestion is to eliminate the over-crowdness and give people more chances to do fair fights as well as have more fun. The core of my suggestion is to break down the areas.

What I mean by that? 

Before I introduce you to my idea, please note that everything can be changed. You, Emerald, have more experience with servers and people than any of us has here. You might directly see many flaws in my idea, but don't hurry to judge it. Everything can be configured based on your experience.

Now imagine having a few areas. For the sake of this example I will take a few towns because it's easier for me. We will have Giran, Rune, Elven Village(in case it's not a faction village) and Aden. Towns/Areas can be as many as the player-base number needs to avoid over-crowdness. It can be 5-6 areas on day zero, and later when people settle down, get reduced to 3 areas. These areas need to be not extremely large. You don't want to have people running around looking for enemies and wasting their time. You want them to find someone, fight, and in case they win, run to the next encounter.

 

Every town will have 10 or more spawning points, depending of the size of the town. This way people have more options in case of overcrowdness.

Here is a small visual example: https://i.imgur.com/pCHZyHj.png

As you can see people are more scattered, and they have the chance to engage into more fair fights. Right now I cannot think of ways of people abusing this. In case of spawn-killing, I think a good solution would be having a protection buff until you take a step or use a skill other than soe. If people are camping in enemy spawns, player will have the opportunity to just soe or write in faction chat that many players are in that spawn. Else they can teleport in other place and run to that spawn and engage into a fight. If nothing of it works, they can just go to another town. And that's the best part of my suggestion. Everyone has an option. If he doesn't like the mages gathered in that area, he can go to another. If he doesn't like the competition in an area, he can go to another area.

One can clearly see how in this scenario every class can be valuable. Melees can fight fair fights or run away, mages can show their true skills without having to use AoE skills, and archers can show their true strategic thinking and position. Tanks can be truly useful for once. They can for example run in a  party and really contribute into the fight. Of course this might rise a few problems, such as extremely strong parties consisted of a tank, a bishop, and 2 DDs, where they will rule a town. But every faction can have such a party. :)


I am not sure if my suggestion can be implemented in the current design of this server, but I trust you will find a solution in case you like my suggestion.


Thank you for taking time and reading my wall of text.
 

PS: I have been writing this post for quite some time now. I had to erase a few parts to re-write them and I tried to be as objective as I could. I don't want you, Emerald, to see me as someone who is wearing blinkers. I am trying to be as neutral as I can. I am not mad about anything, the server is great and everything is working perfectly. I am only a bit frustrated, and through my suggestion I want only to help.

Edited by Epoxy
syntax and grammar
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Hello Epoxy, the first issue can be avoided when you wait till your party dies. When you press "to village" in a certain time window you will all spawn together on the same spot.

The different spots themself have the usage to avoid spawn kills (which happend allot in the past). Full stacked partys just camped the respawns and aoed the shit out of the spawning people.

 

About your tyrant issue i can tell you that of course we are struggling but you might have to change your playstyle then since i can do 20+ kills/map without bp and im still with starting gear without any attribute.

I dont wanna explain how i play exactly but tyrants have probably the best burst dmg ability of all classes in this chronicle. When i choose 1 killing spree char in the crowd the chance is pretty high that i can burst him down even when he has a healer and 20 people around him.

And when im able to do that U are also able to. I believe in you! :)

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24 minutes ago, Chevignon said:

Hello Epoxy, the first issue can be avoided when you wait till your party dies. When you press "to village" in a certain time window you will all spawn together on the same spot.

The different spots themself have the usage to avoid spawn kills (which happend allot in the past). Full stacked partys just camped the respawns and aoed the shit out of the spawning people.

 

About your tyrant issue i can tell you that of course we are struggling but you might have to change your playstyle then since i can do 20+ kills/map without bp and im still with starting gear without any attribute.

I dont wanna explain how i play exactly but tyrants have probably the best burst dmg ability of all classes in this chronicle. When i choose 1 killing spree char in the crowd the chance is pretty high that i can burst him down even when he has a healer and 20 people around him.

And when im able to do that U are also able to. I believe in you! :)

Hello to you too, Chevignon.

I have also been in that season involving the spawn killers. It was a terrible phase. This is the 3rd season(not in a row) I'm playing.

The point of my thread wasn't tyrants per se. It was generally involving all melee classes, as well as pointing out a solution to the over-crowdness. I understand that you might not agree with the above suggestion, and I also understand that many people might like fighting and moving in a school of players. Unfortunately, I don't know how many people don't like it. I am one of those people who would love 1v1 encounters and being given the opportunity to play strategically using all of my skills.

Edited by Epoxy

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I wanted to do multiple areas running in the same time since Interlude already, mainly in order to reduce client lag during big online.

I didn't do it eventually because certain maps / types are more rewarding than others, which would result in certain maps having more players than others anyway.

What I can do, is make multiple instances of the same map, where each instance can contain lets say max 120 players - we already had such a thing here before, it only requires re-implementation.

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@Epoxy

From what i understand from this wall of tekst is  it to change spawning players in  wawes to same whay like it is in deadmatch. You die and have to w8 for random respawn and you dont know who you will meat on other side :). For me grate idea but maps need much more spawn points for doing so.

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Ps. I suggest to test this on siege maps like Aden/Goddard/Shutgard or Giant Cave(maybe you can came with something else) they can have many possible spawn points kind of isolated from each other.

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9 hours ago, Venth said:

@Epoxy

From what i understand from this wall of tekst is  it to change spawning players in  wawes to same whay like it is in deadmatch. You die and have to w8 for random respawn and you dont know who you will meat on other side :). For me grate idea but maps need much more spawn points for doing so.

Actually not. My wall of text suggest a new design.

  • Every faction has a gatekeeper and a starting place(or everyone in the same place, doesn't matter I guess).
  • There are 3-6 areas and each area has 5-15 spawns, depending on how big the area is and how many players are online.
  • Every faction has it's own spawns. As a Chaos player, you can't teleport to Order's spawns.

You go to the gatekeeper, teleport to an area, for example Rune, and you run around in Rune looking for opponents. If there are no opponents to be found, you SoE and teleport in another area, for example Giran.

This way people are scattered around areas as well as in the area and therefore over-crowdness and circle running will be eliminated.

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On 31/10/2019 at 8:46 PM, Emerald said:

I wanted to do multiple areas running in the same time since Interlude already, mainly in order to reduce client lag during big online.

I didn't do it eventually because certain maps / types are more rewarding than others, which would result in certain maps having more players than others anyway.

What I can do, is make multiple instances of the same map, where each instance can contain lets say max 120 players - we already had such a thing here before, it only requires re-implementation.

Sorry, I somehow missed your reply. Yes, instances sounds like a good idea. I am not sure how hard it is to make them, but make sure it will be worth it.

A few questions and objections:

  • Will people teleport to different instances?
     
  • I also have an objection about the 'max players' idea. If someone doesn't like the instance he currently plays in, and he wants to move to another one, but the other one is full, he will be stuck in the former one. This idea takes the fun out of the game. It will fill like a prison with players you don't like(or can't kill). It would suck seeing again groups of 30 people running around Giran in circle again.
     
  • Lastly, I don't find it a terrible idea having more profitable and less profitable areas. Because wouldn't in that case mean 'more profitable = more players = less profitable because of over-crowdness'? And wouldn't people move to another instance after a more profitable area turned to a less profitable?


One last suggestion, if you eventually build something like that, make sure the spawns are kind of mixed up. Don't put Order in one far side of the map, and chaos in the other, because this will make them form schools again.

For example, in Rune Castle, on the last floor where the big circle is, there is a small room(I think it's a pray room). In this room there are small inner balconies/elevated floors. An Order spawn can be in one side of the room on a balcony, and the Chaos spawn in the opposite side. They will be in the same place, but nevertheless away from it's other. This way if a player can run away or fight.

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