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iNducci

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28 minutes ago, detro said:

Btw about this healer outside pt emerald could do it only if you are inside pt you get heal or res

The case is so isolated ... and nerfing healers even more will probably be bad for server overall. I'm sure that 99% of you, came here to play DPS, but there are players including myself that like to play only support classes and getting another nerf will kill the role whatsoever. If you complain about this .... you haven't played back in the days where an EE and cardi could be in 1 party. but then again ... complains and QQ about it got us this far... where an EE (what I always liked to play)  is rather useless unless maybe duo with a friend ...it can't join parties with a bp.....can't heal/res a bp etc like it used to ;)

 

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I don't think disallowing heals outside of party would be conssidered a "nerf", that's not something that should happen in the first place, the question is, does it actually happening?

Because so far everyone who complained proved nothing, and you should already know that without proofs I don't take any report seriously.

Atm healers can heal outside of party, but they don't take any rewards for doing so.

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7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I don't think disallowing heals outside of party would be conssidered a "nerf", that's not something that should happen in the first place, the question is, does it actually happening?

Because so far everyone who complained proved nothing, and you should already know that without proofs I don't take any report seriously.

Atm healers can heal outside of party, but they don't take any rewards for doing so.

If my party is dead and i'm the last one standing, ofc I sometimes heal other people in my faction to help and keep the objective until party comes back. I don't see any point in taking actions against this... what am i suppose to do otherwise? just dance/watch how my faction gets killed and wait for my end too? Not to talk about raid in the middle/VIP TvT/Epics etc where by healing a VIP even outside party you can save him and prevent the enemy from gaining points .... or dunno ... on raid in the middle if i don't have my party alive to heal them .... and I can heal others in my faction which are under attack could make a difference. You will just kill BP role by taking actions.

If it did happen once now with this zerg, im sure it was because of the examples stated above. As you said, a healer outside party has nothing to gain for doing it.

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I agree that nefring cardis its not good idea. But if 2 organise pt abusing it(walking close and heal all time each other on macros)they shuld get some kind of worning doing so next time they will know that they cant do that.

1 hour ago, Venth said:


13) Players caught ruining events will be punished.
Server rule say diffrent story

add video and gg to caner

 

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It's not really a matter of class balance (and the game has quite a few problems with that, but I digress) and more about  players' balance. Basically, one side is overfarmed, and another is underfarmed and is prevented by the opposition from ever getting better gear. So either, nerf even more rewards for hitting lower geared people, or buff even more  rewards for killing better geared people. Or make A-grade stuff cheaper or just give B-grade a damage boost. It's a matter of game economics rather than balance, day 1 sieges  simply enabled the divide to grow this big.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

I don't think disallowing heals outside of party would be conssidered a "nerf", that's not something that should happen in the first place, the question is, does it actually happening?

It doesn't happen. The worst I've seen was an additional party with a secondary OL and some WL's aside from the core DD/OL/BP/SE party.

Anyway, zergs and "organised play" will always be a part of the game. You can't really expect from people to play with integrity and not abuse any advantages given to them. What can be done however is delay how fast the organised clans snowball and overtake the server. This would at least give some breathing room to the rest of the player base and allow them to catch up.

People here have been complaining about the two specific clans and mostly ignoring how toxic the abundance of  FA has been for the server. My understanding was that items like adena scrolls were supposed to be used only by a very small portion of the server, however when you have an economy where you can get FA instantly, turn them into adena scrolls and progress twice as fast, you get the clown fiesta that we see this season.

Besides the point of organised play, the adena scroll rate needs to be nerfed. The item was supposed to provide an advantage when you get it with real money but the way it works right now it basically pays itself back more than two times even when you buy FA for 2 adena and convert them into scrolls. As things stand right now, festival adena provide an endless stream of free money and the more geared you are the harder the money rewards scale. Gear penalty is irrelevant when random people can't do a thing against fully geared enemies.

So to conclude, cut the adena scroll boost in half, somehow reduce the ridiculous amount of FA in the economy, or remove the 3x scavenger + adena scroll synergy so people can't snowball their advantage as fast and have one side overpowering the other within the first 3 days of the server.

Edited by Djinn

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Posted (edited)

 

I'm not abusing any advantages, and that doesn't affect my integrity. I have been respectable to everyone b4 they started trash talking me like I said before, and with regards to zergs, I don't know how many times I have to tell you that we just killed each other in maps and only teamed up for the siege last week (which doesn't apply anymore at all btw, since we just took the Castle alone). What advantages have we exploited? The fact that we play together in groups with classes that are very much allowed in order to be effective? That's just playing smart, and playing well, nothing to do with "abusing advantages". 

As for "delaying how fast the organised clans snowball and overtake the server", I can honestly tell you (yes, you might think it comess accross as a BIAS opinion, but i'm really trying to be impartial) that the abundance of FA is such a small added benefit that it is not single-handedly the most important factor in clans having more resources that can allow them to gear up faster. Yes, the adena scrolls are probably the most important items in the game in terms of progression but there are more factors to it than that!

I've gathered that it takes around just under 5-6 hours of constant play to reach 1,250 FA - the price of the adena scroll, meaning that if you control the castle, you can have a permanent adena scroll boost so-to-speak if you were to play constantly. Whilst this is true, I don't think however that it's not fair. Yes, when there were 2 castles it was easier to take the Castle, and therefore it did seem OP. But now that there's only 1 Castle to siege for the ENTIRE server, and no ALLIES are made, surely it is a fair reward for capturing it successfully? The siege should become something that people want to take, an objective that justifies their effort in terms of the reward. If you were to nerf the FA boost, for example, it may not become so important to solo-players, and discourage them even further of looking to make an organised party/clan. Oh, and as for "progress twice as fast", it's an exaggeration and you know it, it's more of a 20-25% increase in total resources, so in no way does it DOUBLE your progress in the big picture.

I've been using adena scrolls constantly for 2 seasons now ever since it got released, and I can tell you in no way do you get a DOUBLE return on your investment - for example, you won't make 2,500 FA in 6 hours. Maybe if you bought the adena scroll with 1,250 adena (But highly unlikely), you would be able to make this amount back in the first 1-2-2.5 hours, in which case you would have 4 hours of profit, but in no waydoes that "pay itself back more than two times".

The endless stream of "free money" (that nobody really buys/sells anyway so you should just consider FA being used for what you can actually buy things with, not adena) is a benefit, but I don't think it's so drastic that it makes all other factors insignificant and that this is the single biggest thing that makes organised clans steamroll after taking the first siege. There are far more factors like I explained above which lead to people snowballing, and the FA boost is like 1/5 out of those factors.

I beg to differ about your point of gear penalty being irrelevant, ever since I got 2 epics and DB, even with plated leather I'd still get a -77% (capped I think) penalty when killing people in avadon, and then later on with draco set equipped the SAME penalty but killing people in full A grade. You may say that I shouldn't care about the penalty at that point since I already have a lot of gear, but having S grade is far from being end-game ready, and the penalty really does take a toll on progression after that, since with or without scavenger + adena boost, your adena drops become significantly low. 

One other thing I noticed is the falsely perceived importance of Scavenger - I took it off some days ago and I really can't notice the difference - the adena scroll is far more important than the expert skill and even if you were to combine both, you wouldn't notice much of a difference. 

TLDR; I'm not entirely against the adena scroll boost nerf; just don't cut it in half, a 25% nerf will certainly do the job.

At the end of the day, I am more than happy to have a decent, respectable, mature and constructive conversation with anyone that actually cares about the development of this project, (not saying this is you) but complaining about things constantly on the basis of "they are too strong, they must be stopped because they're killing the server" is a little unfair to those who have put a lot of time and effort to progressing faster than anyone else. Being dedicated, and even being skilled, should not be punished; it should most definitely be encouraged by both the server content and the players, only then will it be a true competitive environment. 

 

Edited by Rhaegar

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adena scroll 100% bonus 

We was talking about this long before it was inplemented at the game and biggest defender of this bonus was @Luffy

adena scroll shuld by 6h  50% effect/50% cost so every one can afford it let it stuck with rebirth effect. Adena it theory will by 2/3 curent speed of gain but castle at first day will detroy economy.

Siege start in next weekend of server and lowere drop of fa by 50-25% not stuck able to any premium scrolls. 

btw. check my idea

 

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Posted (edited)

Adena scroll is a mistake because it has a snowball effect.It lets rich get richer ,while poor guys and the casuals cannot even afford buy it .To my logic this item adds nothing more other than rushing the death to the server .

Edited by Agent

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24 minutes ago, Rhaegar said:

 

I've been using adena scrolls constantly for 2 seasons now ever since it got released, and I can tell you in no way do you get a DOUBLE return on your investment - for example, you won't make 2,500 FA in 6 hours. Maybe if you bought the adena scroll with 1,250 adena (But highly unlikely), you would be able to make this amount back in the first 1-2-2.5 hours, in which case you would have 4 hours of profit, but in no waydoes that "pay itself back more than two times".

Its all about what gear you using vs your target and how many players are on event so you can kill/assist. Last season online was anoght to pay off duble or triple if we say it was for 1 a each

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47 minutes ago, Rhaegar said:

As for "delaying how fast the organised clans snowball and overtake the server", I can honestly tell you (yes, you might think it comess accross as a BIAS opinion, but i'm really trying to be impartial) that the abundance of FA is such a small added benefit that it is not single-handedly the most important factor in clans having more resources that can allow them to gear up faster

This wasn't directed to any specific clan. I wasn't particularly talking about the FA gained through castle ownership but the general abundance of FA in the server. The benefit gained from converting them into adena scrolls is certainly not a small added benefit. I agree with you however that it's not the most important factor when considering how fast someone progresses. It is, nonetheless, another way of snowballing a gear lead which is, in my opinion at least, very unhealthy for the longevity of the server.

58 minutes ago, Rhaegar said:

The siege should become something that people want to take, an objective that justifies their effort in terms of the reward. If you were to nerf the FA boost, for example, it may not become so important to solo-players, and discourage them even further of looking to make an organised party/clan. Oh, and as for "progress twice as fast", it's an exaggeration and you know it, it's more of a 20-25% increase in total resources, so in no way does it DOUBLE your progress in the big picture

Let's be real, there is no world where solo-players would group up and be able to contest a castle against already organised people because of the rewards. At least not in the first week of a server which is always the most crucial when it comes to server balance. A castle, regardless of the rewards, will always be an appealing target for organised players since the point of being organised is competition.

I don't understand how you can say that a "twice as fast" progression is an exaggeration when the scroll literally doubles your adena income. This is essentially what an 100% boost means. I am able to make more money than the initial purchase cost every time I am using a scroll and you obviously know yourself than this kind of money is a lot more when it comes to support classes. Obviously the money made depends on the players performance but I was specifically referring to the already strong players that make use of them.

1 hour ago, Rhaegar said:

I beg to differ about your point of gear penalty being irrelevant, ever since I got 2 epics and DB, even with plated leather I'd still get a -77% (capped I think) penalty when killing people in avadon, and then later on with draco set equipped the SAME penalty but killing people in full A grade. You may say that I shouldn't care about the penalty at that point since I already have a lot of gear, but having S grade is far from being end-game ready, and the penalty really does take a toll on progression after that, since with or without scavenger + adena boost, your adena drops become significantly low. 

I apologise if I wasn't clear. This was regarding the perspective of a new player, not someone who is ahead of everyone else already. I've tested it myself by playing a nuker only with b grades (pretty much what the average new player would look like) for 3 days and the bonus from having an inferior gear (literally +333% per the system message) didn't matter as the damage is so low that you end up getting only 1-2 adena since multiple people attack the same targets. Obviously the adena reward is huge if you are able to deal the most damage on each target but this is not really realistic when the gear difference is that big.

Anyway, my interest is in making the server as balanced as possible so that it's enjoyable for everyone and, from what I've experienced so far, adena scrolls contribute negatively to this. In my opinion they should only provide a small adena benefit for the people that actually support the server (they are sold on a Donation Manager afterall) and not to everyone that is able to get their hands on festival adena.

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13 minutes ago, Djinn said:

 

Anyway, my interest is in making the server as balanced as possible so that it's enjoyable for everyone and, from what I've experienced so far, adena scrolls contribute negatively to this. In my opinion they should only provide a small adena benefit for the people that actually support the server (they are sold on a Donation Manager afterall) and not to everyone that is able to get their hands on festival adena.

+1 I think this is the reason why Emerald implemented this .Nothing wrong with this .Adena scroll should be only for the donators that suport the server and not for everyone .

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 This discussion is over.

Giran Castle is removed so now clans has no more incentive to team up, and the current alliance already splitted by the looks of it.

The FA discussion is pointless, it won't be changed as long as none of you provide solid proof to how "OP" it is -  it says it gives double boost but you forget people actually pay for it AND have to spend 6h playing to get what they paid for, which means you need to get at least ~2k adena (depending on FA market price) before you can start counting how much benefit you actually get.

FA reward from castle replaces the previous clan shop so there really isn't a big benefit here, ofcourse the amount of FA dropped can always be adjusted IF needed, which so far I don't see the need to.

P.S. I find it amazing how quickly you guys forget why such a system was implemented in the first place... (hint: "omg, server just opened and someone already has DB, bb").

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