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Lesley

L2 OvCnomics

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Hi there family. I'd like to bring the discussion about the life-cycle of the interlude seasons and the factors the influence it in a positive or negative way. For those who play here a long time, its clear that there is a failure somewhere in the system that makes the population drop hard mostly in the end of the 1st week or beginning of the second.

These issues for me are no more than failure in the economic system. Either it didn't got enough developed along with the other things such as class balance, map diversity etc or it was never the ideal setting in the 1st place.

Many people have already wrote on these subject along the years, giving suggestions or even raging on forum. Everyone that takes a time in their life not only to play server but to help with its development should be appreciated. For most of the old players, OvC has become a main event along the year, not only because its amazing scheme but also cause of all the friends and funny/amazing moments it creates. 

My question to all of u: Are u satisfied with the things the way they are now? Is this cycle possible to be broken, or delayed? 

Things said, the main idea of this topic is to talk about the pros and cons of some server features like : progressive gameplay,  current enchant system, relation between clan organization and faction balance and the raid boss/ raid jewel system. Not only that, known server-side issues like geodata bugs,  critical errors and FPS lags are obvious reasons behind population drops.     

- Progressive Gameplay

For those who dont know progressive gameplay is a system where the prices of items in GMShop drops continually until becomes free eventually based on the sales/purchases of the next upper grade. Theoretically, it would incentive new players to join cause now they can fight with better gear. 

I see two failures in this system.

1 - If the grand majority of people will join in the 1st week, and most of the people in L2 world dont like to join a server that has been going for alot of time - being it pvp server or not - the negative effect of break on players past expectations about the gear value makes more people to quit in total than the effective incentive of bringing more people to play. Example: A becomes free, 10 players that had bought A decide to quit, while 5 new players join the server.         

2- Despite in the 1st moment it looks like a system to benefit new comers, it ends up benefiting those who already play alot, since they can buy their rbjews and just wait for the items to come free.

- Current Enchant System and maximum enchant levels

Atm the enchant system based on blessed works like : If u fail, the enchant goes one level down. If u succeed, it goes one level up normally. This was done initially (in my POV) to stop people from quitting because of fail enchants. Despite that, this system created a larger inefficiency than the one it was supposed to fix. For the reasons:

1- Easier enchant system makes people reach their "dream gear" earlier, not only making them get more bored faster but also making their victims more bored faster. Incentive the class unbalance towards those who directly benefit from higher enchant weapons, like mages and archers, making most of people vote in big maps even when the population is low. Sum of this effect is surely to be more negative than 1 or 2 emo QQ cause of weapon breaking.          

2- +16 weapon should be a hard thing even for the most skilled no lifers around here, not a thing that is surely gonna be reached in a time or another. People should be recognized for attaining this goal, and maybe applying the retail enchant system from +12 to +16 would already be enough.                                                                                       

- Relation between clan organization and faction balance

There is a trend among the classic clans here to play on Chaos faction. This is a movement that happened along these years and I cant really explain why. Mostly because from the strong clans we used to have in Order only one remained till today, while many other clans developed and flourished in Chaos in the recent past.

In this case, the inefficiency is not created by the server structure but could be avoided by making some Leader access part on forums where clans who apply for it get like idk, lv 3 clan in the season opening but is subject to play in the administration- chosen faction. I dont really have to explain the effects of this unbalance in the server development. You can just check the current wins from maps, bosses and mini to see that clan/faction unbalance is a determinant factor of the server quick population drop. 

Also in my opinion ELO system should be reworked. It is not providing accurate balance in maps.

- Raid boss / Boss jewel system

Raid bosses are one of the most important systems in any MMORPG game and in fact L2. Leaving it as a random spawn takes off one weapon of the server administration to control the amount of online people in certain days. Just as I said before, you could leave all epics dead in the opening and manually spawn them on 1st month weekends with correlate advert on forums and facebook page. Only open RB jewels to Gm Shop after all the raid cycle has been completed on the 1st month. 

 

TLDR: Anyway, im bored of writing. All these issues are certainly correlated between each other and the message i get from them is pretty clear: we need a slower gameplay progression in order to have a longer lasting server.

Thanks in advance!

LEL (:

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

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2 hours ago, Lesley said:

TLDR: Anyway, im bored of writing. All these issues are certainly correlated between each other and the message i get from them is pretty clear: we need a slower gameplay progression in order to have a longer lasting server.

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

YES! 

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this topic gives me a good reason to type some of my thoughts.
first of all i didnt read ur topic cause it was too big and i was bored to do it ^_^

So,in my opinion server need to be like it was. I mean,in past seasons,where the epics werent in gm shop, and l2ovc was more like LINEAGE, l2ovc project wasnt so known to the people,so the popularity every season was kinda predictable. Nowadays l2ovc project is well known to many people,and always the grand openings are good.
So... the key for success is to bring back the old features of l2ovc project,since now the project is well known, and because in that seasons were lasting 3-6 months. I remember myself being hero for 15 times and have 20k+ pvps...Well,that numbers show that this seasons had something to keep ur motive and to play for many weeks,things that the new seasons havent..

There are 5 features that Emerald must focus in order to make his project enormous.

1) Olympiad
2) Siege
3) Epics//raids
4)territory status
5) enchants//enchant system
---------------------------------------------
1)  if you make olympiad rewards retails (400k gate pass/1k crp/hero miracle 30 sec) you will achieve many things,such as : u will make olympiad a competitive feature,you will attract people NOT to make bots for heroes (bd,sws,maestro,sk,da,etc etc ) you will make them create their favourite class because if they will take hero on spellsinger or necro or sph or archer or dagger they will have the benefit of 30 sec ud and much more like the 450k gate pass)
2) all this adds u are doing in siege rewards are not attractive...you made clans so cheap so this 1kill=1crp is useless...the only thing that could make every clan keep their motive to take and to keep the castle for many weeks is the "TAXES". In previous seasons taxes of castle was enabled,and this is the biggest motive to go to siege.
3) i was possitive when u made us vote about "want epics in shop?" BUT as i see in the latest seasons...this was the biggest mistake in l2ovc history... i still remember the fights we had with russian clans in frintezza...or i still remember how a bunch of random russians killed the first valakas in server when we were organising our clan for it,and they were suddenly surprised us when we saw the announcement that valakas is died...but this made us have bigger motive in order to take the 2nd valakas (after 1 week respawn) so this automatically gave us 1 week motive to keep play the server. And its simply the best way have epics free for everyone and the best could take it...its not unfair or unbalance...its just THE BEST win,so simply. And the best in every lineage server got an advantage. The best clan farm more epics so they are monsters in maps,the best class takes hero so he has 30 sec ud,the best clan take the siege so they make money from taxes...as simple as that...Also if u remove epics from shop and make it as it was,you can bring back pet buffs in order to balance the pvps.
4) this new feature is very good but im sure NOONE knows it's existance....this new featue IF you would make rewards bigger ( dont be mean Emerald on ur rewards rly...) you will give to the both factions BIG motive to win all the maps,and to join in all the maps...And guys like me wouldnt say "ok i will go order this event cause they suck and cause i want to try to help them win a map). NO,my faction is chaos and i must play only on chaos,only when i cant join my faction i could go order.
5) i ll be quick on this subject...make max enchant +10 or +12/// make S scrolls obtainable from grand olympiad manager///epic's drop///martankus and dr.chaos drop...You know that if u do that,we will have EPIC fights in farm zone? this place,where u could die only once per day inside there,when you are pvping makes u move like ninja...makes u play so safe...and gives you a good-strange feeling when u are pvping 9vs9.

Thats all for now...i really believe that this 5 subjects are the most important to focus on,if u want competitive seasons and not 1month seasons...I hope everyone would reply their opinion,and i hope emerald wont reject my suggestions in one reply.

Peace

PS: i got many more thoughts and ideas about the server,what changes should be done,and what changes must come back as it was in previous seasons,Emerald.
 

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I agree with everything u said mostly. Just to have it as a list:

- Improvements that worked out well (2016-2018)

     - Continuous balancing of classes and PVP related issues

     - PVE Zone, party missions

     - Limiting of clan slots, not possible to form ally

     - Improved advertisement and media communication

     - Small things like adding the multi-kills and better scoreboard

     - Different maps like Castle vs Castle and MOBA Arena - Better map variety

      - Objective points and buff

      - Way to get noblesse / expert books 

     -  Fix of death match critical errors and crit errors in general

     -  Limiting donations on 1st days

     -  ....

 

- Things that needs to be improved

         -  Progressive gameplay

         -  Enchant system

         -  Grand boss and boss jewel system

         -   Olympiad / Siege / Territory Status

         -   Faction balance / clan balance

        -    Geodata / FPS Lags / Crit errors

Edited by Lesley
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I think we must all understand that the main reason people quit the server is because people start to quit the server :/ Its a snowball situation, the way to stop it is make grinding harder and enchant much much more hard. I also made a suggestion about S-grades and baium/anth/valakas to be non-tradeable because people share too much (im the No.1 who does that, i dont hide it) and people get boosted very much when some strong player quits and freely gives his items to another already strong player. The solution is not to make crazy changes in everything, the server is very good, we must really focus on the start of that snowball that happens when the first people start to quit, and diminish it.

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stop breaking your items ))). and start playing more. lo0l .))).

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Well i'll make this post for you guys talk points who you are thinking why this season dont become so good like others.

In my opnion, so fast itens grade A,S, RB jewels. Alot of criticals and others things and chaos zerg.

btw i dont care for zergs but ppls when log only see chaos and almost all them with itens ++ left instantly or try to go for them.

tell me your opnion guys, i want to see points.

Edited by iCitrus
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1 hour ago, Luffy said:

this topic gives me a good reason to type some of my thoughts.
first of all i didnt read ur topic cause it was too big and i was bored to do it ^_^

So,in my opinion server need to be like it was. I mean,in past seasons,where the epics werent in gm shop, and l2ovc was more like LINEAGE, l2ovc project wasnt so known to the people,so the popularity every season was kinda predictable. Nowadays l2ovc project is well known to many people,and always the grand openings are good.
So... the key for success is to bring back the old features of l2ovc project,since now the project is well known, and because in that seasons were lasting 3-6 months. I remember myself being hero for 15 times and have 20k+ pvps...Well,that numbers show that this seasons had something to keep ur motive and to play for many weeks,things that the new seasons havent..

There are 5 features that Emerald must focus in order to make his project enormous.

1) Olympiad
2) Siege
3) Epics//raids
4)territory status
5) enchants//enchant system
---------------------------------------------
1)  if you make olympiad rewards retails (400k gate pass/1k crp/hero miracle 30 sec) you will achieve many things,such as : u will make olympiad a competitive feature,you will attract people NOT to make bots for heroes (bd,sws,maestro,sk,da,etc etc ) you will make them create their favourite class because if they will take hero on spellsinger or necro or sph or archer or dagger they will have the benefit of 30 sec ud and much more like the 450k gate pass)
2) all this adds u are doing in siege rewards are not attractive...you made clans so cheap so this 1kill=1crp is useless...the only thing that could make every clan keep their motive to take and to keep the castle for many weeks is the "TAXES". In previous seasons taxes of castle was enabled,and this is the biggest motive to go to siege.
3) i was possitive when u made us vote about "want epics in shop?" BUT as i see in the latest seasons...this was the biggest mistake in l2ovc history... i still remember the fights we had with russian clans in frintezza...or i still remember how a bunch of random russians killed the first valakas in server when we were organising our clan for it,and they were suddenly surprised us when we saw the announcement that valakas is died...but this made us have bigger motive in order to take the 2nd valakas (after 1 week respawn) so this automatically gave us 1 week motive to keep play the server. And its simply the best way have epics free for everyone and the best could take it...its not unfair or unbalance...its just THE BEST win,so simply. And the best in every lineage server got an advantage. The best clan farm more epics so they are monsters in maps,the best class takes hero so he has 30 sec ud,the best clan take the siege so they make money from taxes...as simple as that...Also if u remove epics from shop and make it as it was,you can bring back pet buffs in order to balance the pvps.
4) this new feature is very good but im sure NOONE knows it's existance....this new featue IF you would make rewards bigger ( dont be mean Emerald on ur rewards rly...) you will give to the both factions BIG motive to win all the maps,and to join in all the maps...And guys like me wouldnt say "ok i will go order this event cause they suck and cause i want to try to help them win a map). NO,my faction is chaos and i must play only on chaos,only when i cant join my faction i could go order.
5) i ll be quick on this subject...make max enchant +10 or +12/// make S scrolls obtainable from grand olympiad manager///epic's drop///martankus and dr.chaos drop...You know that if u do that,we will have EPIC fights in farm zone? this place,where u could die only once per day inside there,when you are pvping makes u move like ninja...makes u play so safe...and gives you a good-strange feeling when u are pvping 9vs9.

Thats all for now...i really believe that this 5 subjects are the most important to focus on,if u want competitive seasons and not 1month seasons...I hope everyone would reply their opinion,and i hope emerald wont reject my suggestions in one reply.

Peace

PS: i got many more thoughts and ideas about the server,what changes should be done,and what changes must come back as it was in previous seasons,Emerald.
 

I agree with everything u said too. But think can increase 1 point more, the augments skills, to hard to take it w/o expend almost 10k adena or more.

the rest i agree totally, necessary change that things for can be more competitive and logic to go inside events and wanted to play them all.

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From my perspective what always demotivated me as a player was joining a gve server and seeing people ridiculously ahead in gear. This phenomenon escalated quickly this season as there were people hitting +16s and getting S gear as soon as they were unlocked. Other than that another major factor was the heavily unbalanced factions. Basically a few people grinded hard at the start, abusing organised play and certain classes and and getting way too ahead progression-wise which led one faction overpowering the other. As a new player why would I want to play against people that far ahead of me in such a short time? It's not fun.

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2 hours ago, midfekar said:

From my perspective what always demotivated me as a player was joining a gve server and seeing people ridiculously ahead in gear. This phenomenon escalated quickly this season as there were people hitting +16s and getting S gear as soon as they were unlocked. Other than that another major factor was the heavily unbalanced factions. Basically a few people grinded hard at the start, abusing organised play and certain classes and and getting way too ahead progression-wise which led one faction overpowering the other. As a new player why would I want to play against people that far ahead of me in such a short time? It's not fun.

In my opinion in this server all u need is a group to play with. If server is launching for some weeks and newbies are logging in and they saw that there are ppl with good gear,the only reason that will make them stay in server is if they will find a clan to play with and help them farm in party. What I want to say is that,clan capacity must be like it was 10 ppl main-5 ppl in royals,because if we dont have slots in our clans,how are we gonna help a good newbie to stay in server if he can't find any slot in clans cause clan capacity is 15 ppl in total? and make clans hard to be make again so siege have still some motivating rewards (1kill=1crp) 

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1 hour ago, Luffy said:

In my opinion in this server all u need is a group to play with. If server is launching for some weeks and newbies are logging in and they saw that there are ppl with good gear,the only reason that will make them stay in server is if they will find a clan to play with and help them farm in party. What I want to say is that,clan capacity must be like it was 10 ppl main-5 ppl in royals,because if we dont have slots in our clans,how are we gonna help a good newbie to stay in server if he can't find any slot in clans cause clan capacity is 15 ppl in total? and make clans hard to be make again so siege have still some motivating rewards (1kill=1crp) 

I agree with this, all you need is group and is alot more fun, now just think what will you do so ppl would play in grps together.

On other old faction server which doesnt exist anymore we didnt had all buffs and ppl where lvling EE/SE/OL/WC/PP to get prophecys.

so ppl had to grp with buffers and stay together. Here you just take buffs and you are rdy to pvp. We also had prophecys potions in donations so many bought them on start to help with lvling.

This system really forced ppl to play together.

This is first time i play on this faction server after like 3 years and what really impressed me is mission manager to bad you can only play it once per day. Really good pve experiance.

For newcommers you should make something like boost accont for the time they catch up with others becuse when they see

All this geared ppl with +16 weapons and epics ofc they just leave. but yea this could result in abusive play if ppl could trade gear and adena to other account.

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I would love to read and go through players suggestions but since all of you suggest game changing stuff that anyway cannot be implemented at this point its pointless to speak about it at this phase, so this topic is locked (I will unlock it at a later stage, or just open a new one when the time is right).

Server still goes on, there are still people playing, and i'd advice you to keep playing along with them.

To make the gameplay more fun you can still create your own clans at each side to increase the cempetition.

I will only say that from my observation the main thing that was most problematic so far was the fact that most clans went on Chaos side, it is only in your hands to balance stuff up because even if i'll give 50+ extra players to Order side it won't help when we're talking about 3+ oraginized groups on Chaos side that plays together and knows to assist each other properly.

Still, this can be "fixed" fairly easy if just 1-2 people from Order side would pick the glove and open a clan.

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Well here i'll talk a some points who i think should improve for by better server in next season and u guys can do the same.

First of all: Server style and what u should do, in mine opnion  all the game is based on it. 

RB jewels should dont sell in gm shop, no like this, mby after 1-2 month or never, u decide it.

Elo points/ waiting list: Ppls in geral dont like to wait to can go inside a one simple event only bcs have more ppls in our faction or "not even have more, but some class going to waiting still".

You need do smth about that since everyone talk about it since start every with season.

Focus in olympiad, increase reward or do smth for ppls want to go for competition. not only randoms hero and feed's only because of "glow"

Castle siege focus on it for more competitive also

Itens grade A-S, u can open itens grade A after 2 weeks or 1.5 weeks or mby just open it in 1 week. But put it with restrictions  like u need 10k adena + materials for do it, i mean craft set A-S for more hard sets, more hard get itens, it in my opnion can increase competition of ppls.

Enchant rate do smth about it for not so much and so fast itens +16 or  other else.

Expert books back to before, only 3 for each lvl up like old style

donate ppls restrictions, only can donate after 2 days or 1 week.

I think its all atm, have alot of others things who can do for improve the server,  i want server by better, with more ppls, more action, more pvps, more everything. Server is rly good and i want this can keep like good and improve for be better.

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1 hour ago, iCitrus said:

Well here i'll talk a some points who i think should improve for by better server in next season and u guys can do the same.

First of all: Server style and what u should do, in mine opnion  all the game is based on it. 

RB jewels should dont sell in gm shop, no like this, mby after 1-2 month or never, u decide it.

Elo points/ waiting list: Ppls in geral dont like to wait to can go inside a one simple event only bcs have more ppls in our faction or "not even have more, but some class going to waiting still".

You need do smth about that since everyone talk about it since start every with season.

Focus in olympiad, increase reward or do smth for ppls want to go for competition. not only randoms hero and feed's only because of "glow"

Castle siege focus on it for more competitive also

Itens grade A-S, u can open itens grade A after 2 weeks or 1.5 weeks or mby just open it in 1 week. But put it with restrictions  like u need 10k adena + materials for do it, i mean craft set A-S for more hard sets, more hard get itens, it in my opnion can increase competition of ppls.

Enchant rate do smth about it for not so much and so fast itens +16 or  other else.

Expert books back to before, only 3 for each lvl up like old style

donate ppls restrictions, only can donate after 2 days or 1 week.

I think its all atm, have alot of others things who can do for improve the server,  i want server by better, with more ppls, more action, more pvps, more everything. Server is rly good and i want this can keep like good and improve for be better.

 

hmm, at the expense of the shmot I support it is not necessary to unblock it in 2-3 you can really do it for 1-2 weeks so there will be more people and it will be possible to have time to farm, But I can say about rb jewels, I think it should be removed server that would not focus on this and the balance in the game between classes will grow in 100-150% I assure you

 

ADMIN REMOVE IN THE NEXT SEASON  RB JEWELS!!!

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pffffffff.... i like the crafting a grade thing , though the rest is.... u have no sense. 

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