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Maybe it's the time to do it.

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13 hours ago, Emerald said:

At this point you won't be able to convince me to do anything, since I simply know its today's community that is the problem, no matter what game version i'll pick and how much better the gameplay will be, it won't change much when it comes to players finding execuses to leave.

We never convinced you, you did whatever you felt like. Even when people would complain about population being low or asking for a new season, you'd just keep waiting and waiting. Your solution to this problem was wiping the server when you literally had 2-3 people playing on it. 

And you've had the same problems for the past few years. And you keep doing the same things: wipe and new IL season.

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

how much better the gameplay will be, it won't change much when it comes to players finding execuses to leave.

Gameplay has been the same essentially the same since 2010 with Erb. Futhermore, i didn't know that this server existed till i read about it on reddit. Only a few days later i recognised the poster was stkj and then i connected a few dots and figured out that you were Builder.

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

Too many players are simply fast leavers, jumping from server to server with no real goal - they'll play new servers even if the gameplay there is shitter than the server they came from, why? because its new - that's today l2 community.

Whats the goal besides smacking a few noobs in the server? Gearing up? Getting a castle that people don't even register to?

To anyone who tried to build something in this server, you have kept fucking them over and over. At some point you were so jealous you'd issue random bans/de-lvl clans/restrict clans/party restrictions and so on, just so your massive grass-hoping population could have fun for 2 weeks instead of 1.

 

Have you considered that maybe its a management problem?

 

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@Star64 You really couldn't say anymore bullshits in a single post, congrats.

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Just now, Emerald said:

@Star64 You really couldn't say anymore bullshits in a single post, congrats.

And you can't be more oblivious about your own server

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Posted (edited)

Sorry but saying that the classes where balanced is cringe worthy at least.
No, i don't blame neither Emerald or Ruby for that, there's so much that they can balance a chronicle that only a handful of classes are playable anyway.

And if you think that all the classes or most of them are playable, do the following simple experiment, put a limit on each class allowed per faction, not roles, classes.
Do that on IL and then try that again on epilogue/H5 and compare the QQ/people that will even bother to play when top/easy mode classes are not available.

Of course i'm not saying that there where not managing/community issues either.

Doing nothing about exploiters/scammers.
Ignoring suggestion from experienced people cause bobs will get upset.
Allowing people to spam in gibberish 24/7.

I understand that you had to compromise on some stuff since the majority of community are GRs/BRs.
The sad truth is that no-one will come to fight/compete vs them.

You need to attract at least barely known/skilled guilds/players, they are the ones who will attract enemies/fanboys/even randoms.
And if they wanted to play in a non-English speaking server where rules are not being enforced they would do so in one of the countless RU servers.
I'm pretty sure you already know that but you cant please everyone.
You wanted to keep the server solo/unskilled friendly and you saw the results, maybe you should have tried to focus more on the team-play?
Remove cap from parties, have only basic available in buffer, make epics more retail like. I suppose you get the general idea.

Again i don't mean to disrespect neither you/Ruby or your work and hope that you know that by now.
I don't know if ill play or not in next season so not gonna bother trying prove my points anymore.

I'm gonna repeat my suggestion to you once again, make a small PM group with people that are experienced and know what they talk about.
I have seen some known names in the forum from both low rates and faction servers, most of them didn't play or even logged in the forums lately but if you can get them to help will worth it.

P.S. Sorry for the long post, i prefer to explain my thoughts and prove my points rather than keeping a post short. :)

Edited by Saintly
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2 hours ago, Saintly said:

Sorry but saying that the classes where balanced is cringe worthy at least(...)

I Agree with most of Saintly said, mainly the part that talk about server comming to attend only solo/unskilled players...
That restriction on support classes was not a cool thing to "balance" the massive pvp things...
But like @Emerald said: we will have always that type of players who quit server motivated with the most stupid reasons...
The problem of L2 actually is the current players.

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30 minutes ago, DiscipleOfLust said:


The problem of L2 actually is the current players.

So what? U guys repeat this non stop from 2 months from now. I agree with that but repeating this over and over adds nothing to this thing

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Is this it? No fix for OvC bb shutdown forever cause community sucks? quit drama pls

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3 hours ago, Saintly said:

Sorry but saying that the classes where balanced is cringe worthy at least.
No, i don't blame neither Emerald or Ruby for that, there's so much that they can balance a chronicle that only a handful of classes are playable anyway.

And if you think that all the classes or most of them are playable, do the following simple experiment, put a limit on each class allowed per faction, not roles, classes.
Do that on IL and then try that again on epilogue/H5 and compare the QQ/people that will even bother to play when top/easy mode classes are not available.

Of course i'm not saying that there where not managing/community issues either.

Doing nothing about exploiters/scammers.
Ignoring suggestion from experienced people cause bobs will get upset.
Allowing people to spam in gibberish 24/7.

I understand that you had to compromise on some stuff since the majority of community are GRs/BRs.
The sad truth is that no-one will come to fight/compete vs them.

You need to attract at least barely known/skilled guilds/players, they are the ones who will attract enemies/fanboys/even randoms.
And if they wanted to play in a non-English speaking server where rules are not being enforced they would do so in one of the countless RU servers.
I'm pretty sure you already know that but you cant please everyone.
You wanted to keep the server solo/unskilled friendly and you saw the results, maybe you should have tried to focus more on the team-play?
Remove cap from parties, have only basic available in buffer, make epics more retail like. I suppose you get the general idea.

Again i don't mean to disrespect neither you/Ruby or your work and hope that you know that by now.
I don't know if ill play or not in next season so not gonna bother trying prove my points anymore.

I'm gonna repeat my suggestion to you once again, make a small PM group with people that are experienced and know what they talk about.
I have seen some known names in the forum from both low rates and faction servers, most of them didn't play or even logged in the forums lately but if you can get them to help will worth it.

P.S. Sorry for the long post, i prefer to explain my thoughts and prove my points rather than keeping a post short. :)

infinite ++, would also add live changes to season. hire a indian community manager for 1$ hour to deal with player support. stop offering unfair market advantage on donate shop (imo stop fckin with server economy) . stop offering full donate for S grade items and boss jewels 1st day, boost drop xp sp runes instead and make leveling very very hard starting from 7X level. make sieges something different where everybody can participate and get a reward according to their purpose (clans > dominate caste, solo players > help clans in their faction) 

idk there are many many things that could be done all it takes is a little bit change of mindset. 3 years and same thing still happening, i remember some of my 1st posts close to 2016 where i told emerald that progression is still very early developed. if u dont want to stop with live changes at least create yourself some limites, cause honestly the reason for server short duration is always the same and always will be. server has a shitload of good features but with all respect, no incentives at all for the avarage player who cannot play all day and eventually just become fishfood for veilside rats

thats my 50 cents bb

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Posted (edited)

also limit enchants, we already see the effect of -1 +1 and golem stoneheart and is OBVIOUS that in a way or another it makes season end quicker

Edited by Lesley

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Well, i didn't point it out in my last post since i believe that everyone know that.

Lineage 2 community died years ago.
I'm not talking about numbers obviously since it keeps tanking,  but there's no actual community anymore.

And that's what makes it far, far harder to keep a server populated nowadays, you need a constant stream of new players.
As long as 5-10% of each wave of new players stick to the server, there will eventually be a community that can sustain the server and keep attracting players even if 99% of them leave after a while.

The problem is that you need a server that. almost flawless in anyway to do that now-days, so the question is, is it possible to even make such a server, and if it is, what are the costs and does it worth it?

Emerald is right about one thing tho and there's no denying that if you ask me.

Quote

You gave an example of a server that was successful back in 2010, I can name you many more that were successful back than, it doesn't mean they will be successful today, most likely not at all - its all about feeling nostalgic about an old server you've played, nothing more than that.

Dex would be the first one that comes to mind, it was a good server there's no denying that with an amazing number of online players all day long.
I mean i cant even remember how many months if not years passed till they fixed daggers. (Blows didn't use SS.)

If we go even gonna go more back in time we got powerhouses like Paradise/Extreme servers that even stated in their advertisement "70-80% C3/C4 features working!"
Such a server today would not attract even 50 players.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, Saintly said:

Well, i didn't point it out in my last post since i believe that everyone know that.

Lineage 2 community died years ago.
 

Are we playing half life or cs 1.6? U get my point?

L2 is dead, mods to dead games arent

the more skill based and less gear based u make it, more it will last

Edited by Lesley
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I do not understand why here often simple discussions are becoming personal attacks....

It's true that the game is getting old, people have been playing it for years, most of the players are quickly bored but it's on all servers not just on ovc.

Faction servers have one advantage - they do not need so big online to be alive and successful as low rate servers.

For example 50 vs 50 on the map is absolutely OK for faction server since for low rate this number is just 2 clans(or half depend of the chronicle ).

Emerald tries to diversify the server by adding new events and features but I think he is limited by the chronicle and he can't does so much.

That's why I think that time for new attempt on other chronicle has come :)

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If you know what to do,a server can last for years without a wipe and still have a decent ammount of players,take l2elite for example,c4,never wiped,10+ years,still has 4k+ online at a minimum.

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Posted (edited)

Interlude is just old and limited .Dunno about what community wants but i would like a more complex chapter,anything from hellbound to hi5 would be just that,maybe indeed its time to move on from this interlude to other chapters .People need realize interlude beside being old and obsolete ,its very linear and simple in a bad way .Also geodata in interlude and limited skills/choices was always a punch in the nuts for those who like play melees .At least in later chronicles u can overcome that with skills such as rush and shadow step and other that makes melees more balanced towards range .

A hi5 would be ideal ,it doesnt need be perfect ,Emerald just needs continue work from last hi5 and improve it step by step and if possible consulting community in wich direction .Hi5 can be improved season by season it can be a long project but it could be worth imo .

Edited by Agent

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Lesley said:

So what? U guys repeat this non stop from 2 months from now. I agree with that but repeating this over and over adds nothing to this thing

Repeat What lesley mate?! What we repeated? we didn't have 2 weeks of a season ))). . What Did we Repeat when we never started an IL Season like it is right now with proppah community xD and with all the implemented features. We had 1 season like 3 seasons ago maybe i'lld say , which was successful with progressive gameplay and it went on for months. 

Edited by Zirconium

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1 hour ago, Agent said:

Interlude is just old and limited .Dunno about what community wants but i would like a more complex chapter,anything from hellbound to hi5 would be just that,maybe indeed its time to move on from this interlude to other chapters .People need realize interlude beside being old and obsolete ,its very linear and simple in a bad way .Also geodata in interlude and limited skills/choices was always a punch in the nuts for those who like play melees .At least in later chronicles u can overcome that with skills such as rush and shadow step and other that makes melees more balanced towards range .

A hi5 would be ideal ,it doesnt need be perfect ,Emerald just needs continue work from last hi5 and improve it step by step and if possible consulting community in wich direction .Hi5 can be improved season by season it can be a long project but it could be worth imo .

Agree to all of that. No wonder, you were my buddy this season :troll:

I'd really like to see a H5-OvC again. It enables all melee-classes, tanks are also more viable due to their partybuffs, and we got 3 more classes, which simply increases the diversity. I also enjoyed the subclassskills, the skillenchant trees, more classes in oly. Other than that, theres more to do progressivewise. Ofc some balancing must/should be done, but thats a given I guess. It wont be perfect from the start, but the last H5-OvC I played already seemed to be on a good way. Problem lies within the progression. The more you can do, the more the gap between hardcore-players and newbies increases

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Just one thing that I don't understand... why not L2 Classic instead of Interlude?

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1 hour ago, Wilhelm said:

Just one thing that I don't understand... why not L2 Classic instead of Interlude?

Maybe cause it's not Ready Yet To Be Launched ))). :P 

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6 hours ago, Agent said:

Interlude is just old and limited .Dunno about what community wants but i would like a more complex chapter,anything from hellbound to hi5 would be just that,maybe indeed its time to move on from this interlude to other chapters .People need realize interlude beside being old and obsolete ,its very linear and simple in a bad way .Also geodata in interlude and limited skills/choices was always a punch in the nuts for those who like play melees .At least in later chronicles u can overcome that with skills such as rush and shadow step and other that makes melees more balanced towards range .

A hi5 would be ideal ,it doesnt need be perfect ,Emerald just needs continue work from last hi5 and improve it step by step and if possible consulting community in wich direction .Hi5 can be improved season by season it can be a long project but it could be worth imo .

+1 This is the right idea.

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Don't know about others, but I want different balance from some other chronicles making summoners scalable lategame.

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7 hours ago, Zirconium said:

Repeat What lesley mate?! What we repeated? we didn't have 2 weeks of a season ))). . What Did we Repeat when we never started an IL Season like it is right now with proppah community xD and with all the implemented features. We had 1 season like 3 seasons ago maybe i'lld say , which was successful with progressive gameplay and it went on for months. 

The season we talking about is end of 16'. It succeeded simply because the faction were balanced enough to have challenging sieges and oly and flames and competition for 2 weeks straight also a good mass of randoms who later on when clans quit helped to make it last longer. At that time server had 2000000000x less improvements than today even myself when i see my video there is alot of things that have been improved and i gratz emerald for that. Maybe if we had this year same community as 16' server would be good by now. 

But many of the recent improvements made to desperately bring more players has been tested and proved as inefficent, instead of making it last longer make it quicker. 

So my point is no matter how good your server is, you need to work on the community side and bring big clans before opening. Big clans dont like l2j. big clans dont like server tweaking in middle of season with major impact on economy (mostly to fix new things that didnt get proper test).

Step 1. Decent Beta

Step 2. Adv., build sides

Step 3. Full info how its gonna be, detailed info and proper advertising of most sucessful events

Step 4. Paid sieges, twitch streamers, video rewards, top pvp rewards, top classs rewards WHAT EVER.

Step 5. Decent community support especially to donators. no douchbagging treat your clients how you want to be treated

Step 6. Fix eventual bugs with minor impact 

Step 7. Chill and enjoy money dropping in the bank

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9 hours ago, Zirconium said:

Repeat What lesley mate?! What we repeated? we didn't have 2 weeks of a season ))). . What Did we Repeat when we never started an IL Season like it is right now with proppah community xD and with all the implemented features. We had 1 season like 3 seasons ago maybe i'lld say , which was successful with progressive gameplay and it went on for months. 

Let me come back from uni this night and 'll make a $1 million ms paint bussiness sketch for your better understanding

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Can we go for Hellbound chronicle? New race and subclass skills.

Or for gracia final. Enchanting armor gives hp and classes have more diverse skills.

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Alot of ppl asking for h5 but no lets open this tetrislude cause everyone is monkeys and cant use more than 2 keys

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Posted (edited)

On 2018-05-03 at 11:17 AM, Emerald said:

At this point you won't be able to convince me to do anything, since I simply know its today's community that is the problem, no matter what game version i'll pick and how much better the gameplay will be, it won't change much when it comes to players finding execuses to leave.

Too many players are simply fast leavers, jumping from server to server with no real goal - they'll play new servers even if the gameplay there is shitter than the server they came from, why? because its new - that's today l2 community.

Biggest example that can be made is interlude-online, started with 3k players, now only 2.5 weeks later, 1.6k players at peak times - their community almost cut by half, and that's excluding shops and such.

It's true due the abundacy of game tiles in this day. Back in the day L2 was more popular in EU and WoW in US. True long grind games die out slowly and survival and craft games take over. The instant gratification nowadays is way faster and short term so vanila L2 is an old horse in the race. Thus l2 faction servers are the saving grace in these times. Jost log in and pvp. Problems arise when the vanila gear progression backfires on all the newcomers - no one is interested to die 10 times to get an objective done, when kills and objectives are rewarded equally, but the feel of fun is skewed in the fawour of  the ones that kill the most.

I played here around 3 weeks, about ~100 hours total. Thats ammounts to about 4 hours each day. Like always, server start is fun, when no one has anything and knowledge and skill rulles. But due kids that spend 18h a day playing, this doesnt last long and gear outhperforms the casual playerbase. This repeats itself as long as private servers exist, thus population plumets after 2-3 weeks and you are left with nolifers that play 18h a day and donators who spend money to stay competitive. And there is allways someone to max out in the first few weeks to make anybodies else experience miserable as possible, so even f2p 18h a day nolifers drop the ball, due less and less instant gratification or join into clans with the same dudes that farmed them till the expereince of sucking the clan leaders you know what doesn't ammount to much better gaming experience to be had.

interlude-online has even worse numbesr, because each acc has an alt loged in, so its more in the range of 800-1k real players and alts are esential to haw adwantages in both pvp and pve to win the economy race there.

On 2018-05-03 at 11:17 AM, Emerald said:

You gave an example of a server that was successful back in 2010, I can name you many more that were successful back than, it doesn't mean they will be successful today, most likely not at all - its all about feeling nostalgic about an old server you've played, nothing more than that.

When l2ovc was first created it followed the concept of ekokinetics, did it mean l2ovc was successful using that concept? no - people quickly got tired of "running around just to find a pvp, or finding their death" - that's where event based pvp servers were born - a concept that is used in nearly all pvp servers nowadays - and I can surely say that l2ovc got the most advanced events system nowadays.

If you would follow the trends, even current WoW plans to reintroduce faction warfare of the old vanila times so the demand is there not for nostalgic resons alone (mostly due how GW2 busines model survives on this and WoW is yet again readdy to copy any good practice and making it even better due the ammount of funds they haw at their disposal).

I like the ELO system concept in l2ovc due how it shapes MM and blanace of  forces in the battlefields but it's still needs a lot more work, because l2 isn't a moba game that it's gear progression is tied to as single battle, but presists outiside of battles. I'll reapeat myself again: l2ovc has enough battle modes and events, but lacks balance when it comes to gear progression and the economy tied to it.

The most simple solution i could think of is making C gr currency as default starting out with free C grade in the shop. You would need resources and C gr currency to buy B gr gear, resources  and C and B gr currecny to buy A gr gear and resources and C, B and A gr currency for S gr gear. And you only can farm C gr currency while hawing full C gr gear equiped and so on. You keep the same x ammount of gear sold till it becomes free for all grades of gear and even better if the lower grade gear would be used in the production on higher grade gear  like a life stone, thus completing the economy circle and keeping all items in the game in constant demand. Gear that becomes free after a while will just be recycled and wont take any aditional space on the server.  As for enchants and LS, it's a slippery slope that i would only introduce after some time depending on the donations that keep the server runing. Making a voting reward item part of an igredient to get one enchant or LS is a good starting point, becasue it forces donators to buy up other currencyes and they themselves haw to bypass woting syte security cheks themselves to farm the voting currency via multiple accounts so some might not hassle and just buy them from other players to.A log in bonus currency for being online for 3 hours straight would works the same wonders, so combining them with the woting currency as an aditional resource to get your hadns on enchants and LS would stabilyse the economy even more. And the main curency would be the last ingredient for everyting. so: LS and enchants - woting ingredient, active online igredient and adena and/or resources etc.

 

Edited by Zapplix

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