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TheRev

Progression too easy

16 posts in this topic

So, ive played a lot of l2 RVB in the past, and i also played OVC 2 or 3 seaons. And i come here to say that getting itens/enchanting itens/enchanting skills/leveling is too easy on this server for a pvp faction server. U think im wrong? Look at all the players with S and A grade +16 2 weeks or less into the season. Imagine someone joining the server after 2 weeks it has wiped and seeing folks with S grade +16, S armor, Boss jewel and enchanted skills, why wouldnt u leave?
What im saying is that it should be atleast a month before someone gets their hand on a S item, A grade is way too cheap, S grade is also cheap, enchanting is too easy. Unless there will be wipes every 3-4 weeks, progression should be much slower, so u can keep ppl playing more, and make it easier for the ones joining after (which u did rly nice with death boost and god boost), its rly disappointing to see how ppl is already OP after 1-2 weeks.
I went from 76 to 79 in 1 hour as spellsinger with the double xp event farming the mechs, i should only have got to like 76 50% or less. And why not start lvl 75? Make like a quest to get 3rd job or some kinda of payment.
Also, most classes useless. I dont see any swordsinger/bladedancer (cause max buffs is a thing), nor summoners, nor PP,EE,SE, WC (cuz u can get their buffs at the buffer which is kinda weird imo), tanks cant make adenas/xp fast as a mage or archer, which is also kinda frustrating. they should get more XP/Adenas in objectives to make it up for the loss of damage, or everyone is gonna play mage/archer cause they farm faster (which is how the server kinda is now). Dont get me wrong, ive played some classes but mage simply feels so much faster to farm.
Its just sad that so early after wipe server is 70% mage/archer with A or S grade +16, i think it keeps people from staying.

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So, ive played a lot of l2 RVB in the past, and i also played OVC 2 or 3 seaons. And i come here to say that getting itens/enchanting itens/enchanting skills/leveling is too easy on this server for a pvp faction server. U think im wrong? Look at all the players with S and A grade +16 2 weeks or less into the season. Imagine someone joining the server after 2 weeks it has wiped and seeing folks with S grade +16, S armor, Boss jewel and enchanted skills, why wouldnt u leave?
What im saying is that it should be atleast a month before someone gets their hand on a S item, A grade is way too cheap, S grade is also cheap, enchanting is too easy. Unless there will be wipes every 3-4 weeks, progression should be much slower, so u can keep ppl playing more, and make it easier for the ones joining after (which u did rly nice with death boost and god boost), its rly disappointing to see how ppl is already OP after 1-2 weeks.
I went from 76 to 79 in 1 hour as spellsinger with the double xp event farming the mechs, i should only have got to like 76 50% or less. And why not start lvl 75? Make like a quest to get 3rd job or some kinda of payment.

Too easy, too hard, there will always be complaints, a few seasons ago when I removed rebirth system, I made exping harder (to make up for the missing rebirth feature) - I increased the exp rate 2 or 3 times on the very same season, why? because people couldn't bear something that is "alittle bit challenging" - and that's only exp rate we're talking about, imagine gear then...

Same goes for gear, people need to understand that if everyone around is already geared up, maybe it means that gearing up is easy in general and they should try it out anway (A-grade is free now, for example), you said it yourself, you made 76 to 79 in 1 hour in the farm zone, I bet you also made alot of adena out of there.

Making gear harder means it will be harder for everyone, including new comers - and people who play many hours a day or in a team will still keep the advantage of getting the gear first - nothing will change.

The only thing I agree for is enchanting, while I still think that getting gear should remain easy, trying to get your gear enchanted should be the thing that keeps you busy - BUT - from experience with previous seasons, people who failed lets say a weapon above +13 (and it returned to +0) instantly rage quitted, so changes were required.

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Also, most classes useless. I dont see any swordsinger/bladedancer (cause max buffs is a thing), nor summoners, nor PP,EE,SE, WC (cuz u can get their buffs at the buffer which is kinda weird imo)

Lets be straight, forget it, you won't see them here, except for summoners ofcourse, but without proper input I can do nothing for them.

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tanks cant make adenas/xp fast as a mage or archer, which is also kinda frustrating. they should get more XP/Adenas in objectives to make it up for the loss of damage, or everyone is gonna play mage/archer cause they farm faster (which is how the server kinda is now). Dont get me wrong, ive played some classes but mage simply feels so much faster to farm.

I'll let the other users around here respond to that, I know they'll like it :D

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3 hours ago, Emerald said:

I'll let the other users around here respond to that, I know they'll like it :D

since last season tanker got easy to take adena for who really know how to play this class and help his own faction.

 

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9 hours ago, TheRev said:

Also, most classes useless. I dont see any swordsinger/bladedancer (cause max buffs is a thing), nor summoners, nor PP,EE,SE, WC (cuz u can get their buffs at the buffer which is kinda weird imo),

L2ovc has oly and clans allreaddy use those classes extensively to control feeding and acces to hero shop so they remain useful. Other than buffs, those supports can't do much in castle siege setup, because even in vanila they were to boring to main. Only BD, SWS and summoners can actually do something, but that's a limited kit in comparison to pure dd or cc classes.

9 hours ago, TheRev said:

, tanks cant make adenas/xp fast as a mage or archer, which is also kinda frustrating. they should get more XP/Adenas in objectives to make it up for the loss of damage, or everyone is gonna play mage/archer cause they farm faster (which is how the server kinda is now). Dont get me wrong, ive played some classes but mage simply feels so much faster to farm.

I hate it to, because next target does absolutely nothing if you want to focus on the healer in the crowd and manualy clicking it is extensively difficult due how spammable l2 skills are. We got an increaded presence of warlords, so aditionaly to tanks, there is a lot of  hate aura spammed durning a battle. And there is really no skill to keep your focus on your target other than manually correcting/clicking it yourself. On the flip side, without hate aura, healers would melt even faster because you just can't kill of targets as fast as they might come into range.

As far as mage/archers go, thats the result of reduced resource managment. As for mages, MP is a restrictive power pool one can utilyse in one spawn, but due MP toggle all MP restriction are lifted or extended multiple times. Archers on the other hand are the basis of all kiting gameplay in any game ever played and with reduced stun shot duration, they are literaly forced into F1 gameplay in most situations. So as a rule of thumb, all will pick ranged dps classes at some point to die less, commit less, kite more, killsteal and play it safe as much as possible.

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Hello

This guy @TheRev is right ;)

@Emerald

I just would like to share my point of view.

1.Disable COV/VOP/POF/POWater/POWind ppl will start playing EE/SE/WC/Prophet.

2.Enable Warlock/Elemental Summoner cat/pony buffs for everyone in the party ppl will start playing Warlock/Elemental Summoner (Phantom Summoners aswell ) 

3.Lock S grade for first two weeks of the server - example ?

4.Definitely better enchanting system for example; S weapon/armors capacity +12 with a decent rate of course!

5.Add unique currency for S Weapon/Armor/Jewels and Boss jewels

for example gold drake that can be taken by winning events.

Best wishes @Ruby

 

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Posted (edited)

@Emerald dont get me wrong, u are doing a wonderful job and i understand some people will complain if u make things harder. But in the actual state of the game, its rly bad for new players joining the server. I understand that A grade is free now, and i really LOVE that u did that system to reduce prices as server progress, im not saying u should remove that, im just saying u should make it harder for everyone, and keep that system. Like make A itens way more expansive and let people craft them, like its hard to craft S grade at the beginning. And make S grade like really harder to get too, so people wont have such good gear 1-2 weeks into the season, and newcomers will have a much easier time reaching them, since prices will be lower after itens have been bought many times. Experience is kinda too fast, i dont remember if i got a lot of adenas on that 76-79 rush as SPS, but if u remember RVB it was like atleast 5x harder to level up, and i dont mean u should copy that, but it just feels WAY TOO FAST, 
starting level 74 or 75 would make it better too imo.
About enchanting, i understand that people rage quit when it goes to +0, but i think its too easy and also fast right now. I like the -1 system but just make it way harder.
 

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Lets be straight, forget it, you won't see them here, except for summoners ofcourse, but without proper input I can do nothing for them.

Its like im telling you, if u keep those classes' buffs at the buffer, why would ppl get them? I suggest removing POFire, POWater, POWind, Magnus chant, COV from the buffer, and remove max buff count for self buffs and party buffs (but keep buffer max), so a SWS can feel good when havin 24 buffs + his own buffs, while also buffing his party, even if he goes to wear a bow sometimes, he has a mass fear which is rly strong, and BD have a mass paralyze which is also crazy, but in the current stat i dont see why someone would play them. Same goes for SE, EE, PP, they are cool classes which can provide extra buffs and heals+mana+POW/POF, they will be played if u need them for the buffs. Also summon buffs are really good if max buff count for self/party buffs wasnt a thing. All those classes are meant to be more supportive than DD so why not?

About tanks i see now that people abuse/exploit the system to get adenas, which feels even worse, they are supposed to lock someone down and kill them, while not being targeted cause it takes too much to kill them and get those 10 adenas, not just go into the middle of everyone and mass agression, that shouldnt give u adenas or EXP, make them like a single target killer, they can go in, agress, stun, root, kill, repeat. And they will get some extra adenas and xp cause they can do objectives better.

Also spoilers should not steal adenas, just make them get mats when they spoil, at a better rate than DD would get mats+adenas, so they feel like a faster farming character, with the downside u are not leveling up your MAIN, if its really slow to get lvl 80, and u are playing a spoiler, u are getting more itens ofc, but u are getting behind in EXP comparing to other, and will have to grind from 74/75 to 80 later (that being so much slower).

All those changes would make the progression like so much slower, that even after a month when someone joins the server, and the prices are lower for them, they feel like they can still get closer to the top ones, i have some friends joined the server and were like "dude they have S grade +16 already, im not gonna play" while i was trying to explain they could get free A grade since the prices go down, its not really intuitive. And making everyone so well geared so fast feels weird, slow progression keeps people playin longer since they need like 5x more time to get the stuff they have now. Yes its a grinding process but L2 is about grind, shouldnt be different on a PVP server, progression is way keeps players playing on any game.

I know it would be a big change, but i feel like this server was always behind the former RVB because of those aspects, its just mine and my friends opinion tho.
Thank you for your attention!

Edit: And i forgot to metion, making this server Kamael, gracia or high five would give 3 more effective classes into the game, and better UI, etc. Which is great!

Edited by TheRev
forgot to mention
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Posted (edited)

TheRev makes a lot of good points that I agree with. Maybe not so extreme as starting from 75.

 

I also think you should have a season end date. Between 2 and 3 months. You could have events on the last 2 weeks that would reward players with stuff for the following season. You would eliminate the whole "server is dying" talk and you might even get players returning for those last 2 weeks.

Edited by maze

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Also, for arguments sake, is there any way you can tell us what's within your reach in terms of tweaking?

 

It's perfectly acceptable that there are certain tweaks that you need to outsource, meaning a money investment. If we know what falls under that category, maybe we can focus our suggestions in more feasible aspects?

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6 hours ago, PreVy said:

Enable Warlock/Elemental Summoner cat/pony buffs for everyone in the party ppl will start playing Warlock/Elemental Summoner

Don't make summoners buff bots, it will kill them as a playable class with unique battle mechanics.

Rather adjust summoners to be competitive in late game where everyone runs with rebirth skills, tattoo of power, full buffs, epics and +16 enchants.

Such situation was considered to be extremely rare in official interlude by developers and they didn't adapt summoners to it. Yet there should be adaptation in OvC.

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Posted (edited)

Buff bots lol. xD
They got some amazing de-buffs and they can support back-lines with heal.

Even tho Rev's ideas are amazing and love to seem i highly doubt we will see any of them.
Keep in mind that this ain't RvB community we are talking about, the majority of the server are GRs/BRs and we all know what this means more or less skill-wise. :)

I tried to suggest also before the season begun to remove 3rd class buffs but there was huge QQ that only those in party would have them.

Edited by Saintly

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Posted (edited)

Quote

Even tho Rev's ideas are amazing and love to seem i highly doubt we will see any of them.
Keep in mind that this ain't RvB community we are talking about, the majority of the server are GRs/BRs and we all know what this means more or less skill-wise. :)

Well it happens that im a brazilian ;) but i mean, i dont think that skill is the problem here, i think all those changes would make the server more populated, and keep players for longer, nobody will buff bot since u cannot dual box anyway. Maybe im wrong but most ppl i know would like those changes.

Edit: 

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TheRev makes a lot of good points that I agree with. Maybe not so extreme as starting from 75.

I dont see why 75 is extreme, i would even say 74 is better. But most important is that xp/sp is like 5x slower or so. To match the rest of the slower progression.

Edited by TheRev
forgot to mention
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Here are my thoughts about all that:

There has been a time when Summoner-Buffs were actively buffable in a party if I remember correctly. result: it only took about 1 week for everyone to complain about it and
hence having it removed. Do you really want to get crittet even higher than you already get right now?
The only way to enable Summoners here imo is to make the summons scale with the Summoners gear, but thats probably tough/impossible to implement. And even if you do
that, ppl might/will get aggro for having a hard hitting thingy behind their back, which doesnt give anything when u kill it and is nearly instantly resummoned.

If you get rid of the 3rd class buffs and enable them only for the party-players, those partys will simply steamroll you even more than they already do. There are many (/mostly)
solo-players out there and they would stand an even lesser chance against those partys -> just for the sake of having those classes in the game (EE/SE/WC/PP)
There were some SE-playing people this season because of the party-restrictions. Was fine imo. Meaning: Its playable if you are organized. Recharge/Res/MpBurn/LittleHeal

The SWS/BD thing is simply hard to manage in my eyes. Maybe make their Dances/Songs Selfbuffs with higher percentages, but it could turn out to be OP. The gap between OP
and useless is small when it comes to additional buffs.

About progression... there were threads about earning not enough adena (meaning too slow progression) and now ppl say its too much. You cannot please everyone I guess.
I personally think it was fine (maybe a bit too much). Especially the lesser drop rate for BoG/LS/Golem was a good change in my eyes. The recently added Top-Kill-LuckyBox
was superb as well. The one thing I would adjust is the enchant-system. You said that ppl left when they broke their weapons from +12 to +0, but imo they already had the mindset
of leaving by doing so. The AncientAdena-System was nice; less rather useless items. The prices could get adjusted to slow down the progression.

I dont think the leveling is something that needs change

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Posted (edited)

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Do you really want to get crittet even higher than you already get right now?

I understand what ur saying, but if ppl dont get the OP buffs, how are they gonna crit more? swap COV for a summon buff, its kinda weaker, but yeah ure right about parties getting stroger in that scenario since others wont have either.
 

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If you get rid of the 3rd class buffs and enable them only for the party-players, those partys will simply steamroll you even more than they already do.

I kinda agree, but if parties are random only it should work fine? Also we could make those buffs only self-buffs, so WC, PP, SE, EE could self-buff for like 24 buffs + their buffs. That would make those classes and BD/SWS playable too, they would have 24 buffs + self buffs, making them good since other classes would have only 24 buffs.

Now about leveling and progression, i would reduce it like 5x or so, it feels WAY TOO FAST, to go from 76 to 79 in 1 hour, being the 80 the "max level" is so weird. Also itens are too cheap, ppl can afford A grade so fast its not even worth upgrading B. Id say atleast a week for someone to get A grade and like lvl 78 is what i would aim (starting at 75 ofc), otherwise ppl will get top geared so fast its not even worth playing anymore...

But seems like people want a server where in 3 days u can get S +16, boss jewels and +6 S armor, so yeah, maybe im in the wrong place.

Edit: And why no kamaels??? they add with 3 good and balanced classes!

Edited by TheRev
forgot to mention again

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People want IL cause newer chronicles are too complicated for them.
In IL you make SPS main or sub > INT/WIT/CON > DC > Acu weap > F1 Blast/F2 Cancel and bam you are ready to farm kills.

People cry their eyes now cause they agro them imagine when the same braindeads trying to 1v1 a tank with reflect and no jewels as mage criting and pwning them selfs.
Or even worst, imagine if got forbid anyone skilled played BD/SwS/Maestro and begun pwning them.

I really wish we would see epilogue/H5 next season, even hoped for this one but trash tiers cried too hard.

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SWS/BD - I played on servers where sws/bd songs/dances were selfbuffs(u got like +8 buffslots) and dunno why ppl want it here. It's just like tanks but u can get all resists and all offensives buffs. You just sit on someone and laugh that they hit u for 300. Oh ye and spam f1(attack). And if u do that there will be more BDs/SWs than actual tanks coz they will be tankier and do dmg.

CAT/PONY - if u enable these buffs for parties it will be archer meta. Archer with full epics/db/cat will one shot any mage on pow/magnus and 2shot on cov(especially PR). Pony buff doesn't really give u that much. To counter that in some way mc nerfs would have to be reverted(4x dmg and better chance) and coz of that  u'll have mage vs archer meta. Leave the cat buff disabled or make so it somehow buffs only cats(they'll hit like destros :D)

Progression - I agree that lvl'ing is too fast and enchanting is too easy. And i like this idea about enchanting by prevy. Max enchant depends of grade(C grade +16, B grade +14... etc.), lower chance of enchanting for higher grades. It would also balance oly a bit(maybe even make oly max enchant+6). About exp maybe disable farm zone and 2x exp for first week. It will slow down players from rushing lvl and later newbies can easily catch with lvl in farm zone.

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People want IL cause newer chronicles are too complicated for them.
In IL you make SPS main or sub > INT/WIT/CON > DC > Acu weap > F1 Blast/F2 Cancel and bam you are ready to farm kills.

Well but thats kinda sad, my preferred class is soulhound, and he is pretty hard to play, but he is lots of fun, same for arbalester and berserker. I dont see 1 reason not to include them.

 

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SWS/BD - I played on servers where sws/bd songs/dances were selfbuffs(u got like +8 buffslots) and dunno why ppl want it here. It's just like tanks but u can get all resists and all offensives buffs. You just sit on someone and laugh that they hit u for 300. Oh ye and spam f1(attack). And if u do that there will be more BDs/SWs than actual tanks coz they will be tankier and do dmg.

Well but its kinda how they play right? I dont think they will get simply better than tanks since they dont have some of the tanks utilies.

 

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CAT/PONY - if u enable these buffs for parties it will be archer meta. Archer with full epics/db/cat will one shot any mage on pow/magnus and 2shot on cov(especially PR). Pony buff doesn't really give u that much. To counter that in some way mc nerfs would have to be reverted(4x dmg and better chance) and coz of that  u'll have mage vs archer meta. Leave the cat buff disabled or make so it somehow buffs only cats(they'll hit like destros :D)

Yeah but what if u keep that buffs only for themlselves? Cuz right now summoners r too weak...

 

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Progression - I agree that lvl'ing is too fast and enchanting is too easy. And i like this idea about enchanting by prevy. Max enchant depends of grade(C grade +16, B grade +14... etc.), lower chance of enchanting for higher grades. It would also balance oly a bit(maybe even make oly max enchant+6). About exp maybe disable farm zone and 2x exp for first week. It will slow down players from rushing lvl and later newbies can easily catch with lvl in farm zone.

Even if max enchant still +16, we need it harder to do, or slower more precisely. And even if u disable farm zone and 2x exp it is still too fast imo, but yeah that would be a great start!

@Emerald what is keeping us from inserting kamaels into the game? they are quite balanced and its good class addition! Besides from the QQing player ofc.

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